Corgi's and electrics

[steve]

Is basic electrics part of the corgi training?

If so why has my aunts boiler been wired to the upstairs ring main and the controller to the old immersion heater circuit and the upstairs ring main as well No fcu for the controller just the 20 amp one in the fusebox an FCU for the boiler still with shop 13amp one in it

Background asked by an aunt if i could replace a cracked socket today NP pulled fuse to upstairs ring still live at the socket! pull remaining fuses one by one and after pulling the immersion socket now dead Loose floorboard under the boiler a snakes wedding of different cables flexes and the old favorite of chocblocks and pvc tape

I always thought combis were liked cause of the simplicity of wiring them compared to the old y/s plans ( no wiring in of two stats the valve/s pump controller boiler etc) and cant frankly see how he managed to get this system to work well actually i can , but cant understand why it was done in such a complicated way when to do the job properly would be so much simpler

Not the first time had problems with wiring like this the most common example is using old immersion switch/comtroller for the combi of course wiring would be 2.5 T&E so how do you get live, earth ,neutral and a switched live up a T&E cable easy just forget about the earth and send the switched live up the cpc seems to be the common answer to that problem

Another that really couldnt say was 99% the fault of the boiler installer but surely he should have noticed that when the fcu was switched off it only disconnected the controller and not the live feed to the boiler the wiring in that house was the worst example i have seen maybe a full description will be written another day

This is not an anti corgi rant re the gas side of things and yes these are mostly isolated examples and have seen some very good wiring done by corgis as well and also seen some dreadfull things done by electricians

What can never understand is how anyone can leave the jobsite with things in this state perhaps the transport these fellows use was becoming restless at the hitching post and they couldnt see what they were doing to the wiring cause their ten gallon hat was blocking their sight

Well thats my spleen vented

Steve

P.S. Forgot to mention the earths when took faceplate of controller were the earths sleeved and connected to the nice terminal marked ground no dont know where the earths went couldnt find out today as couldnt get to the wiring as backplate was stuck to the wall with one coat plaster!

[tarquinlinbin]

Being CORGI registered,like a lot of trade associations,means jack all. The only thing that counts is good training and experience. I vist properties weekly in which CORGI reg'd engineers have undertaken work and they dont even bother to carry out a soundness test. They get the money and run. No one cares.

joe

[Andy Hall]

This is not acceptable. Chocolate blocks are acceptable as long as they are in a box and the box is accessible - e.g. in an airing cupboard, not under the floor.

All of the power for the heating system should come via one FCU so that it can be swithced off for maintenance etc.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[John]

CORGI do not train but registration covers "aspects" which are assessed by independent authorities (usually a training college). Work is broken down into various classes and each installer must hold basic gas safety plus a seperate category for every type of equipment he/she works on. In your aunts case the installer should hold basic gas safety plus boilers and if he/she installed the electrics as well, basic electricity. In a lot of cases the gas installer will employ an electrician to wire up the system if he does not have the knowledge or training to do so. Do you know who actually did the electrical work in this instance?

The cable to the immersion point should be rated at 13A or above so its fuseboard protection level is not a problem. The outlet serving the heating system should be an FCU but the fuse should be a 3 (three) amp one and it should serve ALL the heating system so as to ensure a single point of isolation in the event of maintenance.

How extensive is this bodge up of wiring? Its possible that the boiler installer wandered into a pre-existing situation but he or his electrician SHOULD have checked that the heating system wiring at least was all correct and no extraneous feeds into it were present.

Well in another thread Lurch et al comments on the need for any wiring at all to a combi :-)

Why would you want to do that? Surely the combi would (ok should) have a seperate cable for a thermostat and there isn't really any need other than that for a switched live to the unit

Perhaps he followed the mantra of "Turn it off at the mains" which would effectively prevent any other source from showing up? Mind you as said above it doesn't excuse not properly testing the system.

Alas I've seen them too:-)

I would check the whole wiring installation - from what you suggest it sounds as though there's more than a bit wrong with it!

[Steve]

Was the installer of the heating system that did the wiring

Wasn,t me that had done that was just a thing have found in a cpl of places

house installation not exactly up to todays specs but done in pvc cable just odd things like sockets on skirting boards all lights on one fuse one bedroom not on the ring but a radial (apparently ppl b4 had lodgers and there was a coin meter for the bedroom )but nothing dangerous

Follow up to first post the boiler was fed from and upstairs ringmain socket via a FCU and the controller power supply from the old immersion fuse .The switched live for the boiler came off of a chocblock on the ring main spur (15 amp choc at that) then down the other half of the old immersion cable ( the one that used to go to the actual heater) to the switched relay terminals on the controler , as this cable was not long enough to reach the boiler it was then chocblocked to a lengh of .75mm flex .Then at the controller a link from the live power supply to the live side of the switch ( it did say if you want a 240V switched live put a link here in the instructions). If you can follow that :-)

Today got rid of spur from ringmain ( disconected at the socket and cable removed)

As cable had steel capping on it used the two 2.5 T&E to pull up a lengh of three core and earth, could have used the old 2.5s but getting them into the terminals on controller a bitch

Used old immersion cable to supply new FCU ( one with a switch the other one didnt) and a 3amp fuse in it to supply the boiler

Then used a suface patress with a single blanking plate ( in A simular roleto the old connection boxes on non combi systems) to connect up the three core to the fused supply from the fcu and the flex for the switched live on the boiler with tape to indicate L&N etc dymo tape on lid to say what was in there Yes i did use chocbloc but it is in a cover and is accessible and all cables are clipped

Then for good measure replaced 20 amp fuse in box with a 5 amp one I had, over kill I know but had the fuse etc so why not

Longest part of the job was waiting for filler to go off

Steve

[John]

SNIP

Alls well that ends well :-) ( now how about the cross bonding )

[John Stumbles]

The categories of work for which a CORGI registered installer may be qualified include Boilers, Water Heaters (you need both to work on combis), gas fires and cookers. Electrics are not a CORGI category. Before a would-be gas installer can get to do his/her assessment they have to have qualifications such as NVQ plumbing, which includes basic electrics, so the gas assessment doesn't directly include any electrical stuff. (Similarly the assessment prerequisites assume other plumbing skills so the assessment is mainly on the gas stuff, not a candidate's ability to pull pipe bends, solder joints etc.)

As I've mentioned in another thread CORGI are applying to run a scheme for installers to self-certify under Part L.

[timegoesby]

What if there is an access panel in the floor? This must be acceptable.

[John]

Now you mention it the electrics classification was an option of the previous (ACOPS) scheme. It was pretty basic stuff but did at least ensure that installers had a bit of groundwork in the electrical work associated with heating. It included fault finding on various "rigs" which simulated Y plan S plan and C plan together with bits and pieces relating to bonding and supplies being via a FCU with a 3A fuse. (At least the assessments run at Leeds did)

[Andy Hall]

That's probably OK as long as it really is accessible, but chocolate blocks just taped up are not.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[John Stumbles]

ACOPS was before my time. I suppose the powers that be decided that the electrical side wasn't rightly part of gas safety, and that the prerequisite for a plumbing qualification to get onto the ACS took care of that side of things.

Still, that would explain "John"'s comment "each installer must hold basic gas safety plus a seperate category for every type of equipment he/she works on .... the installer should hold ... basic electricity".