copying wooden mouldings

[andyv]

I know a lot of this has been discussed before but I can't quite sort out what I need. I have an old Victorian property which has been badly messed about with lots of non original skirting boards, architraves and window surrounds. There are however plenty of original bits I can copy.

I've considered getting a router or maybe a spindle moulder, but don't know much about these. I've presumed that a router is a small hand held version of a spindle moulder, though you can get benches to attach your router to to get greater precision.

How though do you go about getting the shape you need right. Presumably cutter profiles from Victorian times are not still available. The fluting on some of my mouldings is quite complex. Do you need to make several passes with different cutters, and try and make it match the old shape?

I saw in one thread about making your own cutters. How is this done? Is it a DIY proposition?

[Andy Dingley]

Have them made for you on a spindle moulder. You can't make your own without a lot of workshop space and a large and fairly expensive machine. You won't do Victorian mouldings on a router or router table.

For some smaller mouldings, especially detail work, you can make them at home using a wooden moulding plane, but again not a router.

[dom]

A spindle moulder is a large, heavy and expensive machine - with a reputation for snatching fingers from the inexperienced or careless.

You might pay someone to run you some custom mouldings for you on a spindle moulder, it's not a realistic proposition to consider one of your own for a domestic project.

However running your own mouldings with a router mounted on a table, is very doable.

If the moulding is unusual you will need several passes and some ingenuity to produce it. Particularly after the initial cut on a rectangular section timber, there's likely to be a need to support the moulding in different ways on subsequent passes.

If you have no experience of routers, expect to spend some time mastering it in order to get good results.

Have a look through the cutters offered by Trend and through Axminster to see if there's something suitable. But also take a sample of your required moulding to a larger timber merchant - you might be lucky, or find something not-too-far-off that can be adapted.

If you look at Axminster (.co.uk) you'll also see what a spindle looks like and costs, and that cutters are fairly cheap with a very extensive range. That's the deal - a very expensive and very powerful machine that can rapidly cut deep and complex mouldings - but cutters are cheap.

[RobertL]

We had spindels and some handrails copied by a local joinery and the result was first rate. I agree with others that these people have expensive machiens and a lot of experience so it's good to let them do it.

For skirting and architrave take a look on eBay. We found various original bits of wood being sold there.

Robert

[mark]

Custom cutters for spindle moulders can be made by such places as:

[NT]

Wot they said. The only thing to add is that some old mouldings can be made by simply gluing 2 or 3 modern simple mouldings together.

NT

[Andy Dingley]

Not for skirtings. The size of the individual curves is too big for a router cutter.

[dom]

as:

've had old handsaws resharpened by them (they might have done my planer blades too - can't remember) - tiptop service at a very reasonable price.

[dom]

You're right to say a complex moulding in one pass on a router table is more than they're capable of.

But a combination of cutters and cuts can do a lot.

For instance - I've used 25mm radius cutters in my router & table - two passes & flipping the board over to do half-rounds/nosings on 50mm thick board for stair treads.

Of course a spindle moulder could have done the whole thing in one pass, but for modest quantities (and possibly cleaning up imperfections between the cuts by hand) a lot can be done with routers and tables.

[stuart noble]

Or, assuming it's going to be painted, mdf for the bulk, and off-the-shelf mouldings for the fancy bits. A saw bench might be useful.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Easiest to find a local workshop with a spindle moulder and give them the problem. They'll be quite used to making up cutters to match a pattern - and may already have one. That's what I did when I removed the wall between front and back rooms and wanted to replace the skirting and picture rails so it didn't look like it hadn't been built that way. The cost wasn't extortionate.

[Andy Dingley]

No, I didn't say that. You can certainly do complex mouldings by multi-passing. One of the best routers for it is my new tiny Bosch. Although it's small it also has a tilting base, which opens up a lot of spindle moulder techniques (for small furniture work at least). There are lots of spindle moulder mouldings that can't be cut on a router table (at least, not without making sleds) because they require a tilted spindle (and can't get cutter clearance without it).

The real killer for skirtings though is the size of the individual curves. These, on their own, exceed the useful size that a router cutter can make. You can make some Victorian mouldings by multi- passing, which is most dadoes or door mouldings, but not many skirtings.

For furniture mouldings you often find that the original were cut with planes, not rotating cutters, and those can be easy to copy wiith a router, but impossible to copy accurately.

A spindle moulder with the right cutter, that is. If you're doing one- off repros it's still often worth multi-passing, just to do it with the cutters you already have. A four-knife head can make this easier, as you can cut two "passes" in one pass.

[Mark Bluemel]

I used to know someone who combined techniques - assembled a rough approximation with simple mouldings and used a router to fine-tune, as I understand it.

[andyv]

Thanks for all the responses. For now I'm working with reclaimed timber and swapping some skirting round from other rooms where it's less obvious. I think I'll need to get it cut professionally eventually though.

[Bolted]

The larger one of these is a very close match to the 16" ogee skirting in my victorian house

moulder and power feed is easier and gives a better finish, though.

[stuart noble]

A stock item from any decent timber merchant I would have thought.

[Bolted]

Yes, but at a price which quickly pays for the cutters (router or spindle).

[stuart noble]

The cost of 6" x 1" skirting wasn't significantly more than 6" x 1" PAR last time I looked. I tend to use MDF mouldings these days

[stuart noble]

The cost of 6" x 1" skirting wasn't significantly more than 6" x 1" PAR last time I looked. I tend to use MDF mouldings these days

[Bolted]

I can't quite bring myself to put MDF in for reasons I am not sure are entirely rational. The price difference in my local merchants is in the £4 to £5 region per lin m (+ VAT) over the PAR price for the 9" used upstairs. It's enough for me, but then I have the machines anyway.