Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)

It all depends on how good the baulk rings are and how much tolerance either side of the matched speed they allow. I imagine that cars that are very fussy about clutchless gearchange have very effective baulk rings which prevent the synchromesh cones coming into contact until the speeds are very closely matched, and make the characteristic graunching noise if the speeds are not closely matched. That's good for the cones because there will be very little rubbing at contact point. If the baulk rings are less effective, they will allow contact when there is a greater disparity of speed, which potentially puts a greater strain on the rings if you happen not to match perfectly. OK, so you'd feel it as a sudden retardation or acceleration of the car.

On my car I can usually change down OK, because you just increase the throttle gradually until the gear slips in. I find changing up more difficult for some reason, even though in theory it's just the same throttle adjustment in the opposite direction.

Clutchless gearchanges aside, I always try to match my engine and road speeds reasonably well - I've got to know roughly how much the rev counter needle needs to move from its speed for the old gear when changing to a new gear. At the very least, I keep the engine revs constant during the gearchange, and preferably I actually change the engine revs the right amount in the right direction. What I don't do is what some people do: let the engine revs fall to idling, let the clutch up on the idling engine and then reapply power (*). That causes horrendous lurches and must do horrible things to the clutch which has to take the strain of the mismatch. I got a lift with a woman who had been driving a few years longer than me but had never learned about rev-matching. After she'd apologised for the n-th time about her jerky gearchange, I rather diffidently suggested that there might be a "different" (ie "better") way of doing it. She let me demonstrate and I talked her through the process (which surprisingly difficult to analyse when you do it subconsciouly). She was gobsmacked. Goodness knows whether her instructor taught her badly or whether she'd slipped into bad habits afterwards. I suspect the latter, because the gearchanges she was doing would not have got her to pass the test.

It's a skill. No-one is born knowing how to do it. It takes a lot of practice. The miracle is that having acquired the skill, it is transferrable from one car to another and doesn't have to be re-learned to take into account different clutch bite point, different responsiveness of throttle, different spacing of gear ratios etc - it just requires a bit of mental and muscle-memory tweaking of the parameters in the mental algorithm.

(*) The technique that was required for drivers of 1st generation DMU trains, to allow time for several different gearboxes on engines along the train all to change gear by remote (drive-by-wire?) control. I have "fond" memories of the DMUs on the Aylesbury-Marylebone service in the 1970s and

80s which would accelerate hard in first gear after leaving a station, then disengage and let the engine idle for what *seemed* like almost a minute during which time the train not only stops accelerating but actually starts to slow a bit, and then there was a sudden surge of power in the new gear.
Reply to
NY
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Cough. You don't change gear on a pure electric car, because it doesn't have any. All hybrids are automatic too (AFAIK).

Reply to
Andrew

I always knock my Astra into neutral without using the clutch, as I slow down aproaching red lights or a junction or line of stationary traffic.

It's easy to recognise the situation where the engine speed and road speed are in synch whe you are slowing down and going slower than about

20mph.

If the traffic moves off it is also possible to put it back into 2nd gear while still moving at low speed without the clutch.

Reply to
Andrew

Yes, in my statement I was excluding (without saying so explicitly) any car that doesn't *have* a clutch pedal, either because the gearchanges are automatic or because there's only one fixed ratio between motor and wheels (which may be 1:1 if the motors are directly connected to the wheels).

Do any electric cars have separate motors for the two driven wheels, or is there always a single motor and a differential?

Reply to
NY

No, you read that it could be driven in ?one pedal? mode and made in incorrect extrapolation. It still has a brake pedal that you use in the normal way if and when you want to.

Not all EVs will come to a complete standstill when you just lift off the throttle but some have this as a selectable mode. It can be very handy in stop/start traffic in towns as you don?t have to keep switching between accelerator and brake.

Tim

Reply to
Tim+
<snip>

I also started soon after my 17th but only in my instructors Triumph Toledo. Dad had a company car at the time so I never thought to ask if I could drive that and there was no thought / mention of him instructing me. I did however used to steer the car up private roads when very young and sitting in his lap but not that often.

I passed mine first time but my instructor was a real stickler for detail and I had a good few lessons (because of that). His idea was 'If I can make you twice as good as you need to be and you are only half as good as you need to be on the day ...'. Sounded good in theory. ;-)

I passed my bike test the first time as well but it was very different in those days. ;-)

And that, your situation / location can make a big difference to how soon you 1) learn to drive and get a licence and 2) then get a bike / car.

Like a mate always lived in inner London where parking a car was difficult so he always used public transport.

Even though daughter didn't want to drive a car, we advised her to take her test asap as having a (car particularly) license can be another tick box when applying for a job. As it happened it did and has and does drive all sorts of stuff (cars , trucks, vans) in her current role. She's also pretty handy in a JCB 4CX backhoe digger (under supervision on private property).

Yeah, I think there are places where some vehicles are better than other. Like if the only easy access to a place involves a long trip or getting though a width restriction (excluding cars etc).

My only two wheeler commute (to BT) was on my Lambretta SX150 and that was much more predictable than the car / van because you could

*always* get over the railway crossing per each opening. ;-)

Yeah, it's quite surprising just how many vehicles that are ok on the flat (given time) struggle up a hill.

Yeah, that does happen as there is some discretion involved (or was then).

;-)

He he. My Mrs did similar on her bike test when the examiner (over the intercom) told her to turn second left whilst counting a shop access road (that led back onto the road). He couldn't fail her on that as it wasn't a fault as such.

Oh!

A mate taking his HGV test was asked to 'pull over here' and he didn't. The examiner said it again and he didn't, but pulled up a bit further on.

The examiner asked why he hadn't pulled up when first asked and my mate said that he, the driver, didn't feel it was safe to do so. The examiner accepted his answer but just countered that he considered it safe but wasn't the one driving the vehicle at that time (so had something bad happened, it would have been my mate, not him who might have been in trouble).

A trick some say you can / should do on bike tests (where the examiner follows you on another bike or sometimes a car) is to not filter past stationary traffic, even though you might normally as that opens up more opportunities for things to go wrong and more time to do more stuff with the same risk). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

You may be right for most (all?) production electric cars but there are plenty of custom / conversion electric cars out there where they have retained the gearbox, even if it's not needed in many cases.

The electric motorcycle I designed, built and raced (40 years ago) had gears as the 24V DC motor had a fairly narrow rev range and so you used the gears to match the motor revs with the speed with the course (and initially pulling away etc).

A short twisty circuit you might keep it in a low gear and when we went round the MIRA test track, it was mostly kept in the same gear. ;-)

<snip>

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

can have one per wheel no problem

Its a lot simpler way to do a 4x4 torque distribution, than mechanically.

Electric motors automatically transfer torque to non spinning wheels.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Can have, yes. In practice the vast majority are one or two motor, a single motor being the commonest configuration.

Tim

Reply to
Tim+

So you can turn off brake-when-lifting-off-accelerator mode if you choose, while still retaining regenerative braking in addition to friction braking but controlled by the separate brake pedal? I got the impression that regenerative braking was often only available when lifting off the power, and that the separate brake pedal only controlled friction braking. I may well be wrong ;-)

As long as you have got used to the extra retardation caused by lifting off the accelerator completely, compared with that for a mechanical/automatic gearbox and an IC engine.

For normal driving, is it necessary to keep your foot on the accelerator all the time that you don't want more-than-air-resistance retardation?

Reply to
NY

Exactly. Talk about grudging praise. I'd forgotten one thing. When he did the eyesight test, he asked me to read the number of my own car! I said "well, it's ABC 123A but I know it very well because it's my car - maybe you should ask me another one". "Don't you get smart with my, lad" he snapped. He really did have an obnoxious and poisonous personality. There was evidently no pleasing him.

I'm glad I don't have to take a test today. I'd be fine with the actual driving, but the hazard-perception tests might be a problem - not because I can't identify hazards but because the image on the screen is very small and you are expected to see things in the video earlier than they are visible. In real life, the problem probably wouldn't apply. That's when I tried the test on a PC at the Birmingham Motor Show once - technology and screen sizes have probably improved a lot, but I've heard that they still penalise you if you identify a potential hazard which the designers of the software hadn't included.

I like being able to use my local knowledge in a test. When I took my IAM test, I was asked to take a certain road and I chuckled. The examiner asked me why, so I said that I knew all about the awkward oblique junction up ahead where you have to look right back on yourself to check for traffic. "Can't fool you, can I?" he joked.

Reply to
NY

I have done the hazard perception test for real. Although I passed my test in 1984, I actually trained as an instructor in 2009 - although I never took it up, as the Engineering market picked up again and I got a job a few days before I was due to start teaching.

I found the problem to be that I had to be careful not to identify some hazards that they had not identified as such and not to identify the required ones too early.

The allowed band may be fine for learners, but it is way too late for experienced drivers.

I know that when driving normally, I often point out a car to my passenger(s) and say that I think that they are about to do something stupid - and invariably they do. I don't know exactly what is triggering me, but I have clearly learned through experience to identify some subtle cues that I cannot even consciously identify.

Reply to
Steve Walker

Our hired bikes in Turkey were the wrong way round and they seemed to think it was normal. I made 'em change it, I would have been over the handlebars within a couple of hundred yards otherwise!

Reply to
Scion

I got a positive comment for filtering past a right-turning car on my test. That was filtering on the left, of course, and only one vehicle. Bombing down the RHS of a long queue is more likely to be frowned upon.

The hazard perception test changed about 5 years ago. They binned the camera-shot video and it's all computer generated now. I did both tests and found the video one impossible. Too much driving experience already - almost everything that moves, and some things that don't, are hazards.

The computer generated one makes it obvious what the intended hazards are. I scored exactly twice as much on the CG test as I did on the video one.

Reply to
Scion
<snip>

I think you will find most 'experienced drivers' find the same and most trainers admit there is a 'technique' in doing what they want for the test.

Yeah.

Same here ... and spotting cars with partly open doors, partly deflated (rear typically) tyres and rear shocks that were defective (wheel rebound after a bump).

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Sure, I think they like to see you 'making good progress' and hesitation can be held against you, as can traveling too slowly of course.

Oh, interesting. I'm not sure if I've seen one of the latest ones then.

Quite.

I'm not sure that's the point ... other than to get people though the test of course. ;-)

Given how poor the std level of observation / consideration for other road users is on the roads sometimes I'm sure if they made it too realistic, very few would pass.

I know we all have to start somewhere but some never seem to improve their skills past just enough to pass the test. ;-(

What going to motorcycle rallies they often put on all sorts of challenge or riding skill tests. One simple one was to sit on your bike and set the width of a gap as seen from a reasonable distance that you think you can *just* get though (there would be a guy moving a stick with a weight on the end in and out as you instructed. Then you had to ride down and stop with the widest part of your bike (typically the handlebars or mirrors) in the gap and the closest of the day wins). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

As far as I am aware, it?s a user selectable mode, not a default mode. It?s not useful when your out on the open road cruising.

Once again, you are. The brake pedal will in the first instance use regeneration to slow the car in most EVs. Under heavier braking the brake pads come into play.

Once again you?re over-simplifying and imaging problems where they simply don?t exist. My experience of difference EVs is limited but by default, lifting off produces a similar deceleration to being in top gear. Most EVs though allow you to adjust the amount of lift-off deceleration. If you live in hilly rolling countryside say you may opt for a higher level of regenerative braking to reduce dancing between accelerator and brake.

Some have ?adaptive? regenerative braking that uses forward facing radar and will modify the automatic regenerative braking on the fly to slow you down automatically in queueing traffic say.

I don?t know of any car that moves without some application of the throttle (excepting downhill of course). Once you?re cruising it feels no different from being in top gear in any car.

Tim

Reply to
Tim+

I did spend time on rusty bits of the Quickly, which had been my dad's. Its demise was rear wheel failure. The drum brake was only half the width of the hub, so the housing was stepped. It failed with a complete circumferential crack at the change of section. Luckily I wasn't moving too fast at the moment the back end began to feel very sloppy indeed.

A Honda 50 kept me mobile through my student years. Towards the end it had a few problems - the timing seemed to need almost weekly adjustment, the oil drain plug thread was worn, and needed a cereal packet packing washer to seal properly.

There was an occasion, whilst plodding along the East Lancs Road, when the slightly oscillating engine sound that I now know to be the sign of a worn/ stretched chain was followed by the noise of the chain wrapping itself around the sprocket.

I hitched into Warrington, bought a new chain and chain wheel (no sprocket in stock), removed flash from the sprocket using the kerbstone, and continued on my journey.

Eventually I upgraded to a Honda 175, but was no longer doing long runs. Sadly, I managed to collide with a car when I was turning right. Luckily it was the bike that went down, whilst I ended up on the car bonnet. I mended, the bike didn't, so it was back to a Honda 70, which lasted me until my first car.

Chris

Reply to
Chris J Dixon
<snip>

I bet. ;-)

So that was yer classic main tube + pressed frame step through with 3 speed crash (auto clutch) gearbox and leading link front suspension?

Strange?

I was in the bike shop the other day and I think they suggested the retail price for genuine Honda Honda 50 points were 50 quid!

;-)

Ooops. Didn't the 50/70/90 have full metal chain guards?

That was the way in those days. I used a flat bladed screwdriver to work a slot in the solder on the condenser and then a rock on the screwdriver to peen the solder back over the points wire (on the Nth Circ near the Chiswick roundabout on the way back from my girlfriends late one Sunday night).

I fancied a Honda 90 at the time (nearly a real motorbike) but the nearest I got was a Yamaha Townmate (an 80cc shaft drive step though) but it wasn't what I thought it was going to be. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Indeed. They were pretty bullet proof engines that needed next to no maintenance I thought. Can?t see how the timing would keep changing.

Tim

Reply to
Tim+

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