My parents have recently moved into a Park Home. My father is intending to fit a new kitchen [Although at 73, god bless him, I am standing clsoe by]. The kitchen area is pretty small and has a free standing gas oven which he intends to change to an electric one [combined with a gas hob]. At present there is no dedicated oven circuit, so one will have to be made available. Looking at the fusbox, I see there are two spare gangs....
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a clsoer inspection reveals this is not so. Is it possible to purchase a new/longer busbar to accomodate another 32amp MCB, or will the consumer unit need to be changed?
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option I thought of was to combine the two lighting circuits into one MCB and thus freeing up a space for the oven. With only a maximum of 8 ceiling lights I am *guessing* that the reason there are two 6amp lighting circuits for a property of this size, is the fact that these Park Homes come in two prebuilt sections which are then bolted together on site.
I notice also that the main service fuse is 60amp -
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this be sufficient if an oven circuit was added to this setup?
There is also a very small shed that has it's own supply - small CU with one double socket.
"Andrew Chesters" wrote | > My parents have recently moved into a Park Home. ... | Part P anyone?
'Park Homes' are usually built to BS3632 for mobile homes. Building Regulations do not (AFAIK) apply. Some park home / lodge manufacturers can build to Building Regulations standards for a higher cost.
It should be noted that the BS and also the Wiring Regs may have specific requirements which are not encountered in 'permanent' dwellings.
When I moved into my house, I ran a cooker supply in and was gutted when I came to fit the oven........ It had a fitted 13 amp 3 pin plug I s'pose a double oven or one with a seperate grill would take more power but check what is reqd by the unit you intend to fit before you leap
Hi, Could you please take another photo close up of the consumer unit. I can't read the writeing on the "main switch" also the same for the box marked Hager outside. Thanks
Most electric ovens will run comfortably from a 13A outlet, often being only around 2kW. If I'm rewiring a kitchen, I sometimes put a dedicated circuit in incase an electric hob is wanted at some point. The last one I did currently has a dedicated 30A circuit feeding just the spark ignitor on a gas hob/oven ;-) However, check the actual rating of the oven before skimping on a dedicated circuit, and consider the loading on the ring circuit if you intend to plug it in to that.
It should still have a separate feed. All about being a fixed item, drawing considerable fraction of the available power in a ring, if one were to connect it to said ring... Been discussed ad-nausium before.
Yes, sorry, I'd forgotten to mention that this will be a double oven [or it will according to my father, although I'm not sure he's got that right!], that will be installed at chest height so as to facilitate using it, as my mother has back problems. Although this is a small park home, it only has one ring [with a washing machine running from that already] so this oven will definitely have to have it's own circuit.
On reflection, if I can expand/replace the busbar then I'll see if I can put the kitchen sockets on a different ring too.
Well, if I lived there I would, but it's 15 miles up the road, and right now I'm watching the football :-)
As far as I can see/remember the main switch on the CU is an 80amp/
0.03a RCD unit and I'm not sure about the outside switch - it has two fuses, one rated at 63amp for the inside and I think[?] one at 16amp for the shed.
I notice too that the main seal on the service fuse is missing. The previous owner was a sparky :-)
You're very unlikely to find a longer busbar "commercially", though it's
*just* possible one of the sparkies who reads here happens to have a
1996-vintage GE 6-way CU busbar in the spares box... and you'd need to find a suitable insulated standoff to support the far end of the busbar, or whatever means the existing busbar uses behend the two brass screws under the 2nd and 3rd MCBs in your second picture. (I'm presuming there was a busbar cover you took off for our benefit, right?)
Combining the lighting points into a single 6A circuit isn't a dreadful idea - the whole-installation RCD already creates a 'plunge whole house into darkness under single fault' opportunity. If you were feeling thorough, putting in a light which comes on when the power fails would be no bad thing. You can use proper 'non-maintained emergency light' fittings for the job, or make do with wall-mounted rechargeable torch/lantern(s) with the 'comes on automitically when the charger stops' feature.
As others have mentioned, electric ovens don't pull nearly as hefty a peak (let alone average/diversified) load as a whole cooker or just an electric hob, so do check its rating and that of other appliances in the whole setup. From the piccie of the CU guts we notice you have only one ring circuit for the house - you *could* consider giving the kitchen its own new ring, including the electric hob.
As for total loading - the Regs-standard diversity calcs go roughly thus: full rating for the immersion which I guess is on the 2nd MCB, so
12A if it's a 3kW element. Lighting: two-thirds of the 800W for your 8 lighting points, barely 2.5A. First ring: 32A. That's 46.5A so far. If you run a dedicated oven circuit, it'd count as 10A + 30% of the load above 10A, so the 14A in-hand would be good for 22A nominal, or an oven of a little over 5kW; no domestic oven in practice is anywhere near that. If you ran a separate kitchen ring, Standard Diversity is to count second and subsequent rings at 40% of nominal, so your second
32A-nominal ring weighs in at 13A-or-so Diversified - again within even the strict accounting of your 60A supply. Either way, you're OK in practice, unless your parents run a lot of electical heating (convectors/fan-heaters in multiple rooms); but you mention the existence of gas, so I ass-U-me there's gas CH.
One other arrangement that's common enough in doing add-ons where the main CU runs out of ways is to add another CU alongside the first, splitting the supply to them through appropriately-sized-and-attituded junction boxes - Henley boxes, they're called. But for the small number of final circuits you have here (4 or 5, depending on whether you combine the light circuits or not) I'd call it over-egging, and would if pushed much prefer to replace the existing CU with a 6- or 8-way jobbie
- these are available preloaded with a useful selection of MCBs as Special Offers at trade counters and the usual mail-order suspects.
Oh, hang on...
I can't quite tell what the thing to the right of your main fuse is in this piccie - is that perhaps the CU for the shed supply you mention? In any case it's suggesting there's more load on the 60A supply than the CU pictured in detail in your second picture. Whether it's a big enough additional load to seriously upset the '60A supply should be fine' stuff I wrote above, I can't tell...
And thanks for clear questions with supplemental pics, btw!
If it is a double chances are that it will be a 20A feed, connect to a suitable MCB, preffrably with heavy duty rubber 2.5mm flex to a cooker connection plate. Run the cooker circuit in 6mm at least.
If it is a moblie home the supply should be TN-S check with the electricity supplier. You may need to change the CU, an overn is a leaky appliance, and so may help to neciance trip a 30ma RCD, go for a split load one with 100ma time delayed to feed the lights, cooker and DEDICATED socket for frige/ frezzer, and a 30ma trip for the rest. Take care with the cooker switch, make sure it dosn't have a socket in it!.
I took the long way round to get a Thai takeaway, here is a picture of the outside switch.
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see this is also an RCD rated at 30ma. Pressumably this has been installed because of the supply to the shed. so while he's at it, the previous owner's just taken the opportunity to isolate the house at the same time?
I think they're plastic studs moulded into the CU. Might not be worth messing around with.
Yes. Put it back too :-)
Yes, I did notice the darkness factor. I'll have to check that with them.
Not sure whether you meant to type that or not, but there's no electric hob, it will be gas.
Yes, that's right gas CH, and no, they won't be using any additional electric heating, not until they get to the other side of 100 anyway :-)
Sure, I'd replace the CU if I have to with a 6 or 8 way jobbie, but I get the feeling that these are not available until you get to the bigger 10+ gang units. Is this so?
There's a more detailed picture here
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far as this shed is concerned [it's locked right now, so I couldn't get in] I think there's a small CU with only a light and a double socket coming off it. I know for a fact that he won't be running much off this, the odd small drill etc.
Well thanks for the reply, it took you a while to type that. Appreciated.
"Andrew Chesters" wrote | > 'Park Homes' are usually built to BS3632 for mobile homes. | > Building Regulations do not (AFAIK) apply. Some park home | > / lodge manufacturers can build to Building Regulations | > standards for a higher cost. | > It should be noted that the BS and also the Wiring Regs may | > have specific requirements which are not encountered in | > 'permanent' dwellings. | Missed that, assumed "Park" were the builders as they are capitalised. | Still don't, on the face of it, see any problems...
What must also be considered is that the manner of construction of mobile homes is rather different. They are usually an outer skin of metal or plastic and an inner skin of plasterboard or wallboard separated by a metal frame with insulation infill. The cables will be run, probably in plastic conduit, in that insulation. This (adversely) affects the ease of installing new wiring, and also the mounting method affects the current-carrying capacity of the cabling. Trying to achieve a 20A rating on a ring with 2.5mm cabling might be touch-and-go, and a cooker will present a high point load -- all the more reason for going for a dedicated circuit if possible.
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