Consumer law question

At the end of last year I purchased a Miele vacuum cleaner. Yesterday, I got a phone call from Miele to say that that particular model had a potential fault. The instructions say that the cleaner can be switched on initially with the foot-switch on the body of the machine and thereafter, for the rest of that session of use, can be switched off and on by use of the switch in the handle.

Yesterday's phone call said it had been discovered that doing this carried a "slight risk" of overheating and that the machine should be operated from the foot-switch only, but that it was still safe to use. They are arranging for the machine to be uplifted tomorrow and would be modified and returned in about four days; they would be supplying some bags to compensate for the inconvenience.

Does this mean that the machine is not actually "fit for purpose" and where do I stand legally (Scotland)?

Any suggestions?

Regards

PJM

Reply to
Syke
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If the machine is being modified at no cost to yourself and you are being compensated then what different outcome are you looking for?

Probably better to post to uk legal anyway especially if you wish to reject the goods as not fit for their purpose.

Tony

Reply to
TMC

"It's never difficult to distinguish between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine"

P G Wodehouse

Reply to
Another Dave

So the manufacturer has taken a responsible attitude and is doing everything possible to correct the fault. What else would a reasonable person expect?

You have used the machine for several months and have therefore accepted that it is OK.

None that I would suggest in public!

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

Miele are acting correctly to pre-empt a problem... o It probably affects only a limited range of production dates. o It probably only occurs in extreme /but possible/ circumstances.

An example would be... The handle switch rating matches the operational usage, but if a rare failure mode were to occur with the motor, and it were not attended to for some time, then the handle switch could overheat. Or, the handle switch may not meet the technical specification that it was supplied to Miele under, due to supplier error or the supplier identifying a problem.

Whatever, Miele have identified this discrepancy & initiated a recall.

Good luck getting anyone behind the Chinese red curtain to admit to some of the garbage they dump & is relabelled by Western Co's daily.

Separately, if you do not like the vacuum cleaner... o Take that up with Miele UK o They will listen to suggestions & problems

Miele is one of the best engineered vacuums out there. It does have some short comings - parts are expensive, a Numatic (Henry) will out suck it by about 40% in absolute terms, integral castors are too small for deep pile carpets so the cleaner is heavy. However going by the two here some 12yrs old in daily usage, they would qualify as a light industrial product re reliability.

Recalls are not uncommon with responsible companies... o Merlin Gerin / Square-D / MK RCBOs are affected by a recall o Affects the MG / S-D RCBOs 15-Dec-03 to 30-Jun-04 o MG are sending engineers out to test & replace affected dates o Only a handful of items within those dates are actually affected

As mentioned car recalls are usually done during servicing, often without your knowledge (most famous being fuel pump fusing). It is easier to create a new universe than get a car maker to do a recall.

Reply to
Dorothy Bradbury

Thanks for that very informative and positive reply, Dorothy.

PJM

Reply to
Syke

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Reply to
TMC

I'm interested in the expression "uplifted" - I've only ever heard it in Scots conversation; quite a few times...

Is it especially Scottish?

I suppose the nearest English equivalent would be "collected".

Reply to
Frank Erskine

It was not meant to.

If you do not like the vacuum cleaner... o Take that up with Miele UK o They will listen to suggestions & problems

If you would rather reject the vacuum cleaner... o Initially take that up with Miele UK o If not satisfied then seek legal advice accordingly

The purchase is governed by SoGA & EU law. If you wish to reject the goods it would be under such.

Essentially your post suggests... o You do not wish to have the collect & repair occur? o You would prefer instead to reject the goods?

That may be possible. Contact Miele, CAB, Trading Standards, Lawyer in that order.

Some notes...

  1. There may be a legal difference between a voluntary recall by a company and one that is required by law (eg, Trading Standards).
  2. Only a small number of products may be affected, and Miele is recalling all of them. Miele are legally within their rights to inspect the goods first to verify the defect does exist with your vacuum. Alternatively you could pay an expert to do the same.
  3. Replacement of the defective part is likely to be viewed as "made good" regarding fit for purpose under original contract of sale. You may however have some other reason to reject it of course.
  4. You could make a case for an advance loan / replacement unit. If a replacement is offered you may want to verify if it is refurbished in part or whole - as is the case with say parts for a Dell laptop.

Frankly I admit I would prefer this, a cleaner IS quite important. Take my washing machine away for a few days & you'd regret it :-)

  1. Technical specification of a product defines the functionality, performance, tolerance etc that a product will provide. As such technical specification is a legally binding part of a sales contract. Your product defined a switch providing a specific functionality.

Incidentally, if it were rebranded/relabelled then rewriting the technical specification remains legally binding. If the rebrander claims a 2200W motor to allow a higher price and it is only

1200W it is an offence. This is often ignored particularly when China etc literally "write whatever specification you want". Trading Standards list 6 months prison, £5k fine per offence.

Rebranders & relabellers try to get around the law by...

1) not stating how the technical specification is measured and avoid standards like DIN ISO, review magazines do the same. 2) requiring the buyer to prove it does not meet the standard.

Consumers can get around 2) by asking for the product UL code and identifying the manufacturer from that & the real specification. If a specification is refused Trading Standards use a Court Order and can use their Weights & Measures division to validate claims.

So if you wish to reject on grounds that it does not perform to specification that is possible - but I suspect your issue is with the switch recall rather than "it says 380 airwatts but I think it is 220".

  1. Finally beware the word "reasonable" in any litigation, it is one whose cost is best defined as the length of a piece of string.

If you wish to reject the goods rather than have the item recalled, make that clear to Miele - if they refuse go to CAB, T/S, Lawyer. If you are concerned about the quality of the repair/replacement, make that clear to Miele - eg, outsourced 3rd party or Miele. As I recall Miele have their own inhouse repair facility (Dell rarely).

Miele may want to collect & repair so you get back your cleaner rather than running an "exchange scheme" with refurbished units. Refurbished involves risk - if your CRT failed they generally send a "swapout" which may be inferior to your CRT re focusing, age. One reason I really hate such "inherently variable" IT products.

Usenet is not a good source of legal advice :-)

Reply to
Dorothy Bradbury

If you pick up a Miele 4xx with a full bag, it is I believe it is the correct term because the combined entity is rather heavy :-) The "nappy bag" is rather capacious on the big Miele cleaners.

Makes me wonder what size female Miele use for testing. Carry one up stairs and your arms come over all ape like.

No wonder they say they can survive sliding down stairs, but alas they do not say what happens to the door. I know. The flip top cover on a Miele is about £38 delivered. It did a desperate attempt to act as a velocity deployed airbrake, but did alas separate from the body in the final stages.

Damn thing will not die, meant to replace it with a lighter 3xx series years ago - but they lack a spider-kept-inside cover.

Reply to
Dorothy Bradbury

I'm interested in the expression "uplifted" - I've only ever heard it in Scots conversation; quite a few times...

Is it especially Scottish?

I suppose the nearest English equivalent would be "collected".

Yes, I think you're right. Another one is possibly " forenoon", as opposed to afternoon, And as an aside, I'm sure I read somewhere that the Americans don't know what we mean by "fortnight"

PJM

Reply to
Syke

The one I've come across most is 'outwith'.

Reply to
Bob Eager

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