combi vs conventional

[David]

In article , IMM writes

Oh here its goes, this is the "I've lost the argument" post so am going to resort to the usual rhetoric

[David]

Careful Andy, you're talking about John's religion here and you know what these religious fanatics are like.., if you ask he'll tell you how Everton are the most successful team in footballing history and then proceed to go on about them for ages

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Rhetoric. The art of effective writing or speaking.

I think not.

[Ed Sirett]

Clearly some people find there is some fun in the contest, mostly I can't be bothered.

I view the matter a bit like watching bull-fighting, you know who is going to lose. So the entertainment is in then variations in which:

The inevitable but fruitless 'charge' will be made. The skill with which the arguments are refuted logically and quantitatively, especially the latter. The pathos as the 'bull' persists to to his dying breath.

I was going to use the metaphor of c*ck-fighting or bear-baiting but in those contests the outcome, presumably, is more uncertain.

[IMM]

Bertie, do you have your Wayne Rooney mask on?

[IMM]

I would? That is stange as I an not an Everton fan.

[IMM]

You are learning. Keep it up.

[IMM]

Mr Little Middle Englander, it is right.

[IMM]

Mr Little Middle Englander, it is right.

[IMM]

You lack understanding.

As the 28kW can deliver aprox 11 litres/min, that is 60 litres of 60-65C plus 3 mins of 11 litres, whcihs is...approx 90 litres. This will more than fill an avaegage bath of 100 litres @ 45C.

You are making this up. The CB50 lowers the flowrate to have approx 11 litres/min, so no tepid water. can you understand that? Have you ever seen one of these stored water combi's in action? No.of copurse not. They fill a bath zippo, no problem.

You are a silly pillock. The CB50 does NOT run cold. Understand?

and that it would.

"It will do two average 7 to 7.5 litre/min showers". that was clear. Please focus.

Yiu can. As I said "the possibility of two baths being run at once is slim".

Wrong! There are various types and sizes of combi's. The average home, with average use ca be served by one.

Some can't? What is it? They don't like hot water?

Only if the flowrate required can't be met by a combi. A Poweremax "is" a combi and they can belt it out.

What are you on about?

You are one who is saying a CB50 can't supply an average house. It can, AND it NEVER runs out of useful hot water reverting to infinitely continuous mode.

You have been taking Andy pills. You have been reading your skule science books. You have NEVER experienced a high flowrate combi in action, that is clear. And I bet you didn't wear a Wayne Rooney mask either.

[Andy Hall]

Does it still have a reading age of 8?

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[...Jerry...]

Nah, that's the Sun, the Mirror is slightly higher...

I'll get my coat!

[John Rumm]

You are right - I fail to make any sense of your nonsense....

Will it also adjust the cold tap on the bath for you? Here is where you seem to loose the plot. When the water was coming out of the hot tap at full rate, you set the taps such that you were adding 50% cold water to the mix to arrive at your final bath temperature. The boiler now decides to make a big reduction to the hot flow rate - therefore the mix temperature falls to well below bath temp. Hence you need to manually adjust for that. As does the person in the shower now getting their cobbles frozen.

Also how does the shower perform after someone has been showering for five minutes and then someone else runs a bath? They start off with a shower mixed from 65 and 5 degree water - the bath tap goes on and drains the remaining high temp stored water and you are left with the 11 lpm supply at a lower temperature. 90% of which will go in the bath - net result cold shower.

Not saying you can't work round these issues, or explain them to any guests you have staying etc. Then again you would not need to bother if you had installed something appropriate for your requirements in the first place.

yup agree - filling it is not the issue....

Aha admitting you have now run out of argument I see.... same old form.

In your household perhaps - does that apply to everyone? The family with several teenagers? The one running a guest house? The one with a big corner bath that takes a couple of hundred litres?

How can my statement possibly be wrong? Are you arguing that there are absolutely no limitations to a combi system? If you are it would suggest you have no real experience of these matters. Take you own advice and read back through this thread. Plenty of people have explained the various limitations.

More to the point - you have on many occasions stated why you think a combi is better than a stored water system, and bleated on about the limitations of stored water systems. Now you seem to be arguing that so long as you put a stored water system in a box and pretend it is a combi, all of those limitations suddenly vanish. Perhaps you need to clarify your thinking a little.

Perhaps they need full flow rate all the time? perhaps they do not want the hot water temperature falling unexpectedly? Perhaps the maximum tank size available in the stored water system pretending to be a combi is not big enough for them? Perhaps they do not have room for such a large size of boiler? Perhaps they live in an area with unreliable mains water supply?

How would you know? Do you still have two balls? Are they crystal?

I do believe he has got it.... well done sir!

I think if you read back I did not make such a claim. I was challenging your nonsensical claim that combis are akin to the holy grail and the solution to all heating and hot water requirements. I was challenging you apparent belief that the laws of thermodynamics somehow don't apply to a boiler so long as it was designed by an "expert" and you personally have read and approved the glossy brochure or web site.

I will take that as a compliment - thanks!

I installed a high flow rate combi for our home a few months ago. (High flow rate by your previous definition that is). It is good enough. Compared to our previous stored water system it has some advantages and some disadvantages. It was a compromise that suited my requirements.

Very true...

[IMM]

You lack understanding. FULL STOP.

It can be arranged.

The plot in your misinformed eyes, you mean.

This "now", be more specific.

< snip tripe >

Someone runs the bath "immediately" after the shower? Didn't the get dried and dressed after? Or in your house do you dart in and out the shower running past each other along the way, naked.

< snip more tripe >

Is emptying the bath an issue?

What are you on about dopey? It does NOT run out of hot water.

yep.

Then you get either:

a) Two combi's (never run out of hot water) b) Heat bank

Having "several teenagers " in the family is not average. Look up "average".

< snip even more tripe >

It is totally wrong.

In an average home, no. A combi can be bought to suit 90 plus of cases.

< boy! more snipping of tripe >

And I have. You never listened.

And I have. You never listened.

See my post on combi's. That will put you right. Any part you don't understand ask Qs.

< snip tripe again >

All the time to do what? To fill what? In an average house you don't have full flowrate all the time. If you do need that then get a small commercial system. The apanese make the high flowrate combis' in the world. Get one of those.

< more tripe snipping >

Got what?

You said it runs warm.

< tripe sipping again >

I hope you both have never shared these pills at Brookmoor.

Does it run warm?

Shameful!

[IMM]

You are on about the Mail. Your favourite.

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article , Dave Plowman writes

Course he doesn't. As far as DIMM is concerned, usenet is write-only.

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article , Cicero writes

I viewed a house a few weeks ago that had exactly this arrangement. Despite the vendor singing its praises, I was somewhat dubious.

[Andy Hall]

Oh no, that's even worse.

I don't buy newspapers.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I know you live in a tiny hovel, but many of us have more than one bathroom, or a separate shower. Hence the ludicrousness of your one answer to every problem.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I can see the benefits of a combi if you're tight for space, but the above arrangement gives no advantages I can see over a storage system with immersion backup. And lots of disadvantages, given that most multipoints aren't the most reliable things in the world.