Cheap boilers!



Chav, you didn't know to even lose the plot.
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On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:04:07 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

I normally don't try to lengthen these pointless threads.
However almost all gas appliances I've so far seen quote their input rating based upon the Gross CV not on the Net CV. This fact together with the same basis being used by SEDBUK means that all boilers are given efficiency value in the range 0-100%. Only condensing boilers can achieve values above 90%.
This old chesnut comes up from time to time.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
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Dribble quotes figures but doesn't understand basics. Hence his acceptance of more than 100% efficiency. Surprising given he appears to heard of sensible and latent heat - same as any half educated schoolboy. But obviously understands neither.
--
*Wrinkled was not one of the things I wanted to be when I grew up

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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flatulence wrote in message wrote:

** snip garbage from the senile one **
Sad but true. It had to be snipped. Such a fool.
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On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 22:51:03 +0000, Ed Sirett

It's worth having a look through a paper by Viessmann on the technology and measurement methods.
http://tinyurl.com/54aqs
This explains the concept of "standard efficiency" which has a specific meaning related to Net CV and the use of the German DIN 4702 standard for measurement.
The rest of the paper provides interesting reading about the basis of design and calculation. It appears to have some of the same principles as SEDBUK, but the method of calculation is quite a bit different.
It looks like if you were servicing boilers in Germany, you would need to carry a bag of magnesium hydroxide for condensate neutralisers in larger installations.
--

.andy


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On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:22:44 +0000, Ed Sirett

Jeez!
It is still legal to fit noncondensing boilers in a fairly large number of applications. In fact in some applications you can't fit anything else! Have you actually read the rules?
Our local B&Q have a range of boilers at various prices, all discounted and obviously you select one that fits your own application rather than one that doesn't. If you want a condensing one then you buy a condensing one.
The boilers on offer are:
1. NOT illegal if installed in correct circumstances. 2. Come with paperwork, manuals etc. 3. Don't use any more gas than an equivalent boiler. 4. Aren't more expensive for spares. 5. Less reliable? Who knows? 6. Come with a 12 month guarantee and Benchmark paperwork.
Why does a boiler being on special offer indicate a cowboy or non legit plumber? Do you always buy your DIY stuff from the most expensive supplier? If you do then you are an idiot.
All I'm trying to do is point out a selection of very competitively priced boilers which might just help one or two people out.
I thought the whole idea of this ng was to help other people out?
sponix
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sPoNiX wrote:

.............. wot ee said, 100% agreement.
I respect ed sirret as a good un, very knowledgeable, he ought to allow for the undeniable fact that he's not alone ... up there.
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OK, so show me where in the "rules" that it states it illegal to buy a non-condensing boiler?
Also, take another look at my first post and read it this time. Where did I advicate buying and installing a non-condensor illegally?
All I did was point out that B&Q are selling off all their Ravenheat boilers and that the cheapest (Non condensor) was 299.
sponix
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sPoNiX wrote:

I'm agreeing with /you/ ! your post was a first class reposte and said all I was about to say in response to ed's position on this matter.

you didn't, I'm _agreeing_ with /you/ (btw it's advOcate)

I know, I'm agreeing with you: "wot eee said, 100%" i.e. YOU ! :-)
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Ah. I thought you weren't agreeing with me.
I'll get my coat.
sponix
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On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:39:58 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:

There isn't one. However are you never going to fit it? A bit pointless not to. I doubt it's going to appreciate much sitting in the shed.

Sorry, my fault. I thought you were trying to argue for buying up a non-condensor and fitting it simply because it's cheap regardless of the rules. Please accept my apologies if I over did things.
DrD. Please note this is the way to deal with things when you are wrong.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
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wrote:

That is the way. I have never had the misfortune to deal with such things as I am never wrong.
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On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:18:57 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:

Well if you discount the legitimacy of Part-L building regs in >90% of homes.

Indeed but not filled in. Especially the fact that building regs approval is required to install a boiler or self-certification of compliance.

True.
Now this is just plain wrong. Compare the spare part prices for a Biasi or Alpha against the spares part prices for a Worcester or Vailant.

Time will tell. I'm not expecting any upset of the "form book" on this one.

Which needs registering and filling in and signing - and that means certifying it complies with the regs.

It's not the special offer, it's the fact that in >90%+ of homes it would be illegal. Law breaking whilst more of a life style option that it used to be is not common practice amongst those avoid cowboy status.

I think my contributions over the years and the FAQs below speak for themselves in this matter.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
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sPoNiX wrote:

I agree with you. My point is that I would not touch a Ravenheat because of bad reports. I have never used one and use top branded products as that impressed the customer. The 'Bosch' on the front gives confidence in people who buy. That is the way it is.
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On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:06:02 GMT, John Stumbles

They had a condensor at 299
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sPoNiX wrote:

feels national seismic rumble of every plumber rushing to B&Q
/calls brother in law .......
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Probably a good idea to call first as A) I dunno if the offer is local or national and B) They were flying out the door.
sponix
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John Stumbles wrote:

Out of interest - I was chatting to my favourite CORGI last week, and he said his firm was rushed off their feet at the moment fitting new boilers, which he reckoned was due to the demise of cowboy fitters since the new regs and associated paperwork came in.
Having said that, I see there's still plenty of non-condensing boilers on sale everywhere, and I'm sure they aren't all destined for the minority of locations for which a condensing model is inappropriate...
David
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I was talking the man in Wickes. He said the non-condensing combi sell more than the condensing, even in branches that don't have many flats around them.
The old wives tale that condensers are unreliable still holds.
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On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:28:38 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"

You didn't really expect old wive's tales to all change overnight, did you?
--

.andy


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