cement mixer rotates too fast

just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated
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On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote:

No, the cap has no effect on the motor speed.
What speed is it rotating at (should be about 15 rpm or 4 secs for a single complete rotation)?

Is it the original motor?
You might be able to change the size of one of the pulleys to get a different gearing.
You can see what size it is originally supplied with:
http://www.free-instruction-manuals.com/pdf/pa_349612.pdf
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On 24/05/2020 02:19, John Rumm wrote:

Is it 110V being used on 230V mains ? :-)

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On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:

show us the mechanism & motor so we can see what's wrong.
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Yes and not on home owners clubs web site, use a cloud service for the picture and post the link to this thread. Brian
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I'd have asked exactly where it was made and what for exactly. Is it an induction motor or a brushed on. There may well be some wiring that is configured for the motor which is wrong. Seems a little odd to me if its as new.
More likely a new, and incorrect motor pulley or something like that, I'd have thought. Brian
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On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote:

the makers spec* is 26.5 rpm so count how many revolutions yours does in a minute and compare
*http://www.altrad-belle.com/index.php?p=products&id1
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On 24/05/2020 11:02, Robin wrote:

To be fair - if that is right it does seem a bit fast compared to most.
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On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote:

Three thoughts: 1. Change the motor pulley for a smaller one or the drum pulley for a larger one. 2. Check the motor speed on the rating plate, it should probably be 1425'ish RPM but perhaps someone has replaced the motor with a 2800'ish RPM motor. 3. Sell it and buy another
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On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:

There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. It's an induction motor, the smaller ones commonly run at either 1480 rpm or 2800rpm. (ish, ie a bit less than synchronous). They come in standard sizes/frames/shaft diameters
BTW make sure the gearbox has oil, they don't last two minutes without. If there's a lot of play in the gearbox, (twiddle the drum) may not be worth repairing.
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On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:

or the wrong pulleys.
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On 25/05/2020 11:27, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average
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On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote:

or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.)
NT
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On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer.
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On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote:

If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you.
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Jimk wrote:

Do you need an exploded parts diagram ?
http://www.altrad-belle.com/?p=parts&as $0
There's no variable speed drive on the thing. I don't see a way to adjust it, via some control knob.
The motor is an induction motor, with a starter capacitor strapped to the side of it (25uF for 230V model). The wiring is not suggestive of "speed options", as you get on a central heating ventilation fan (which has four taps for speed). The electric motor runs at one speed (with "slip" as a function of loading).
The beauty of the Belle documentation, is figuring out what you own, and what diagram might pertain to it. There's apparently a gasoline version (after market?) of that thing too, as well as the notion of electric drive. And multiple model years, all hiding under the same SKU, making picking parts for it, a nuisance.
I could also find an example of a metallic worm gear for that thing. But there's no sign of that in the diagram above. The above has two levels of gearing.
Belt #46, wheel #45, cannot see pulley for other end of belt. Gear #34, ring gear 15 on drum.
Because of the ratios and sizes involved in those, I don't see home-retrofitting being a viable option. You probably cannot reduce the tooth count on Gear #34 without making it non-functional. And wheel #45, it might not fit if you were to increase its diameter a large amount. It would end up too big for the housing 4.
You could try looking for an induction motor with a different pole count. But I don't remember any "bargains" for motors the last time I looked.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/synchronous-motor-frequency-speed-d_649.html
I would try the after-sales support at the manufacturer, for advice on changing the speed (with a parts change-out). And only go to the small electric motor shop, as a last resort. The motor purchased that way, might well cost as much as the entire cement mixer (depending on how obscure it was). The pricing doesn't have to make sense.
Sometimes, you can find an electric motor you want, but the shaft size is wrong, or the shaft is keyed, or the shaft is the wrong length. Some of these things can be fixed, but again, at a price.
If you change the shaft speed, the forced air cooling velocity inside the housing will be reduced. For whatever that is worth. Motors come with various ventilation styles.
There isn't that much room for the electric motor in this case. You couldn't play the market for an "open ended" solution, like say, a motor with twice the power, but occupying a larger volume.
*******
This isn't the same model, but it shows how complicated they can make their exploded diagrams. This larger model has several powering options. The diagram, again, shows no evidence how the powering options are called out (from a model numbering perspective).
https://www.magic-parts.co.uk/acatalog/maxi140.gif
Paul
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On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 18:53:00 UTC+1, Paul wrote:

rotates so

itor would it

the

gal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equip ment.)

ement mixer ever made I might believe you.

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The diagram shows both pulley/belt and ring gear. The ring gear is not goin g to be practical to increase the ratio of. The pulley I can't see if you c an get a smaller one onto the motor, if you can that would slow it some. I don't know what sort of speed reduction results from charging the thing wit h mix. Baby belle mixers aren't a type I'm familiar with.
In the end, if it's capable of turning at all with mix in, then it can be s lowed by other simple means, but I'd definitely start by a) checking speed when fully loaded b) gearing it down with a small motor pulley as far as possible.
Once those are done, a pulsing driver or VFD would slow it further. But it would also reduce the motor's cooling fan speed, and that would need a work around, ie a separate small high speed fan. A slower motor is the other opt ion.
I'm a bit more familiar with much older mixers, but not a lot.
NT
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On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 10:49:20 UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

The speed is determined by the mains frequency and only varies slightly withe load. As it is with all induction motors.
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On Wednesday, 27 May 2020 13:48:03 UTC+1, harry wrote:

Of course there have been various other ways to drive them over the century plus they've been around.
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On Thursday, 28 May 2020 23:30:42 UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

By hand. Plus with a diesel engine. Forty years ago, electric mixers were unknown.
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