Calling all toilet experts (!)

So the downstairs toilet needs replacing and I thought I'd take it out and tile the floor before fitting the new one. The outlet of the toilet disappears vertically into a cementy-looking collar in the solid floor. The plan was to break the pan out, seal temporarily, and do the floor. The room is right at the front of the house, which is a 1960's jobbie.
The pan itself was bedded into mortar, from which a few judicious probings with a small cold chisel have dislodged it. Although I was as gentle as possible, the collar in the floor moves when I move the pan (I've only moved it a tiny bit so far, so as not to make matters any worse). In my, admittedly limited, experience of these issues, this seems like a 'bad thing' as I would expect the socket to be solidly attached to the soil system. So, my questions are: 1    Am I being over-pessimistic here? 2    Assuming I'm not, what is my best way forward? It seems that digging up the whole soil system would be a big job. Is there a way of sleeving inside the soil pipe to ensure a good seal, for example?
Of course, a part of me wants to just seal the whole thing back down under ceramic tiles and hope for the best, but I know these things can come back and bite you on the rear...
Any suggestions, sensible or otherwise, would be very welcome. Thanks
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GMM wrote:

I think you need to dig out enough to see where the break is. If it's only the collar that is loose, you can remove it and go straight into the pipe with a flanged rubbery adapter thing.
Owain
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
something like:

When you lift the pan out, you'll probably find the cementy collar is just that - a cement sealing collar sitting on top of a glazed soil pipe shoulder. Easy to clean it up and re-make the joint with the new pan.
--

Dave

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Thanks Dave....I'll lift the whole out lot with confidence tonight in the hope you're right!
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On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:44:35 -0700 someone who may be GMM

Remember to put rolled up newspaper into the pipe as soon as possible, to catch any bits that fall in. Remove any bits that have fallen in using the best tool of all, your hand.
Get one of the modern connectors with a finned rubber seal. This will probably fit into the pipe and that is that other than cosmetic finishes.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
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GMM wrote:

I used an adaptor which is finned on the outside.
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... and use washing up liquid on it to lubricate it as you put it in.
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