Burying Electrical Cables in Walls - Do I Need Conduit?

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 09:21:54 UTC, snipped-for-privacy@frigate.plus.com wrote:

Steel conduit. The purpose is to stop someone banging a nail into it (perhaps after you've moved) and killing themself. Did you have a look at the link I posted? I fear not, since you'd have known about the permitted zones and also about the conduit!
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I did have a look at the link. But given what I see already installed in this house and other's I have been in I wanted to seek further clarification! What you see in practice in most homes and what is supposed to be done are often very different. So you can stop fearing not. Would you rather people just made assumptions about what it was suggested they read instead of asking further questions?
Thanks anyway for finally answering the question.
Marcus
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 09:39:16 UTC, snipped-for-privacy@frigate.plus.com wrote:

I answered it in my first reply. However, your defensive replies indicate that it's probably not worth pursuing the other concerns further (and there *are* other concerns).
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Bob,
My apologies if I have been defensive - I think I have been defensive as I found the tone in your replies somewhat condencending. Perhaps the impersonal manner of these groups has led to this so, again, my apologies.
I am interested in the other concerns if you are willling to share asI do want to do this job right but I also want to learn at the same time.
Thanks again.
Marcus
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 15 Apr 2007 03:36:33 -0700 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@frigate.plus.com wrote this:-

"If I have been defensive" is followed by, "I think I have been defensive".

Any "tone" was probably because people regularly come to this group and are told that what they are doing is unacceptable. They appear to take offence at this and then compound their error by appearing to want to be told that what they are doing is acceptable. In other words they didn't really want to learn, they just wanted a decision they have already made to be "legitimised".

Yet you have already implied that you don't want to do this job right. You imply that because things have been done in a particular way in the past that is how they should be done in the future.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

David,
No I actually implied that I had seen so-called prfessional work that was at grest variance to what would now be considered "acceptable". This has now led to confusion on my part and I was seeking clarifiaction as to what the experts on here thought I should do. I was seeking the advice of this group and given that I had casue to trust it in the past I was planning to follow it.
Instead I seem to be getting grief because I either 1) want to do the job myself 2) I'm not happy with comments about not reading links when what I was doing was attempting to make sure that my understanding was correct and 3) people pointing out that I don't really want their advice but instead just want them to rubber stamp what I want to do!
I don't know how I have managed to annoy yourself and Bob and I apologise.
Thanks to the folks who have afferede some advice (and that includes David and Bob!).
Marcus
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 15 Apr 2007 08:21:14 -0700 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@frigate.plus.com wrote this:-

Two possibilities:
1) it was done correctly some time ago, before acceptable zones were put in the Wiring Regulations. IIRC that would be more than 20 years ago, though ISTR it was good practice before then.
2) it was done incorrectly, more recently.
Neither is a reason to do the same thing now.

I have not noted anyone doing so in this particular case. It is only occasionally on this DIY group that people are advised not to do something themselves. When that advice is given it is nearly always because someone has demonstrated that they are not competent to do it themselves.

I have not checked it, but IIRC the link says what the Wiring Regulations say. Someone went to the trouble of providing that link.
Of course a suitably qualified electrical engineer can do something else that provides an equivalent level of safety, though they would have to argue this in court if necessary.

That is the impression you gave.

I'm not in the least annoyed. However, I advise you to enclose the cable in earthed metal conduit, put accessories at the "corners" along the run, or re-route the cable.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@frigate.plus.com wrote:

There are two aspect that will lead to confusion. Firstly you will encounter work that by today's standards are not acceptable, but was ok at the time it was done. Since there is no requirement generally to bring old installs up to modern standards the work will stay like that until altered or replaced. Secondly you will find substandard work by any standard. So it is not always safe to draw too many conclusions from what you see.

Chill out, some folks in this group get too far up their own backsides sometimes! Hang on it there, you will find out all you need in the end.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

What you see in practice in most homes and what is

Yep. Seen a new build with the strapper between the hall to landing switches running diagonally between the two. I only saw it because the owners mounted a picture:) The wiring was not DIY.
Adam
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Earthed steel conduit, to be precise.
--
Regards,
Stuart.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

How far from the ceiling is your horizontal run?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@frigate.plus.com wrote:

The logical thing to do there would be to run the cable up to just below the ceiling and the horizontally within the 150mm allowable zone [1], then vertically down to the new socket.
I would prefer (by a good margin) to put the horizontal run in the ceiling void.
Ben
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

No, I'm extending the ring as I need to put a socket in a part of the room which happend to be on the other side of a door frame. The only way I can get to the location from the existing ring main is to go around the door frame. Hence my question - is it OK to just bury the cable in the plaster or does it need conduit? All runs from the existing socket are horizontal and vertical to get around the door frame to the new location.
Thanks,
Marcus
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@frigate.plus.com wrote:

How can that be? David
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@frigate.plus.com wrote:

OK, a picture would help here...
Say we have (use a mono spaced font to view this):
------------------------------------------------- ceiling ______________B________________ | | | +============+ | | | | | | | | | | | | | A | | | | C | | | | | | Door | | | | | | | | | | | | | | exiting -> #### | | #### <- new skt skt | | | | -------------------------------------------------- Floor
Does that look anything like your arrangement?
If wire run A is in line with the socket below it, and B is within 150mm of the ceiling, and C is in line with the socket below, then you are in the permitted zones. You don't require conduit. You may find it useful to place capping over the wire to protect it when replastering, but it is not required.
If you do need to run a cable out of a permitted zone then you can do so by have earthed metal conduit (there are other cable types that are permittedd, but not relevant here). You may also do it by ensuring the wire is burried at least 50mm into the wall instead. However this is hard on most walls since it needs to be 50mm from both sides!
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to do. Your diagram is very much the situation here. What I was trying to determine was what I needed to do in order to protect the wiring runs. I had already chased the wall to the ceiling and them run across to drop down the wall to the new socket. I had gone all the way to the top of the wall without realising that this was a "permitted zone". What I was worried about was the vertical runs in the wall but it woud appear that they are OK as they are in line with the old and new sockets? I had chased the wall quite deep as it is a breeze block wall but I'm probably short of 50mm - but not by much!

Thanks very much for your patience and help John, it is greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Marcus
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

No....but I said "new wiring like this"....it is presumably 'new' wiring, not replacement or extension.
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.