Buried Electrical connections

I know that if an electrical connection is to be plastered over it must be crimped or soldered.
Could someone please provide a link to a suitable joining piece (either crimp or solder).
My screwfix catalogue seems to only show standard crimp connections.
Any advice on regulations regarding this type of joint would also be helpful.
Thanks Steve.
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I don't actually understand your posting. Screwfix -other suppliers are available- supply Crimps AWG 22-18, 16-14, 12-10 (insulated terminal) and mm² 0.5-1, 1.5-2.5, 4-6 (insulated terminal). these crimps _must_ be 'crimped' using a specified crimping (distorting) force to assure connectivity - this is achieved by utilising a ratchet action cramping tool: see;- <http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp? idp036&ts860
--

Brian



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Hmm... That link didn't work for me - but I think you meant...
http://tinyurl.com/phagr
Roy
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Brian Sharrock wrote:

OK thanks for that.
Apart from the specified clamping force, these just look like the standard crimps that I have been using for years for bodges on old cars.
Once the connection is crimped, and presumably, insulated with heat shrink tubing, is there anything to do other than plaster over?
Does the joint need mechanical protection i.e. a metal box with a cover before plastering? Or is the plastering deemed to be enough?
How about the soldering option. Is a suitably twisted pair of wires, to ensure mechanical strength, then soldered and insulated as above OK?
Sorry, too many questions!
Steve

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They are the same. The differance is that with mains you don't bodge it. You use the proper tool

No
Provided it is the correct zone it doesn't need additional protection

In principle yes. But it is not easy to use heat-shrink sleeving in this circumstance. You need to take the outer sheath back a fair way to get the sleeving onto the inner core. And there is a danger that the heat of soldering will shrink the sleeving prematurely

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dcbwhaley wrote:

Yep, and dont try and pull the heatshrink onto the joint while its still warm or it'll shrink and grab like a bugger!! and then its time to curse and recut the joint to sleeve another piece of heatshrink. (from experience, and more than once !!)
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dcbwhaley wrote:

No, I absolutely don't want to bodge anything, I am trying to undo past bodges! I just thought that there would be a special set of connectors that were deemed to be OK. I will buy the correct tool and crimp the connections properly.

This connection will be made in a hall, so that it would be OK Brilliant!

Yes, points taken. The crimping method is much better all round and it also means that I can persuade SWMBO to allow me to buy new tool :-)
Thanks for your reply, I know where I am going now!
Steve
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You should consult someone with a knowledge of electrics!
Alan
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Alan Holmes wrote:
> You should consult someone with a knowledge of electrics!
He just did, by posting here.
--
Cheers,

John.

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So, other than my post, didn't he get a sensible answer?
Alan

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Alan Holmes wrote:

Indeed, other than your post yes he did. ;-)
--
Cheers,

John.

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That is why he is on this forum. He consulted me.
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And your advice was?
Alan

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.... very good advice
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dcbwhaley wrote:

Thanks, it was good advice.
Steve.
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To put your life at risk, doesn't sound like good advice to me.
Consider this, as I said in another post, banging nails into a wall which has buried electic cables in is dangerous, apart from perhaps selling your house to someone else who will drive nails into the wall, possibly killing themselves, if you stay in the house until you get old, when your memory, like mine, will gradually get to a point where you cannot remember why you have stood up from a chair, you decide to hang pictures, and you forget that you have put cables in the wall, you or your wife will be the ones banging nails into the wall.
Now if you wish to put your life at risk because of an idiotic notion that you can just put cables into a wal and plaster over them, that is your prerogative, but do not put someone elses life in danger.
Now I speak from experience, when I moved into the house I an in, I wanted to make some alteration to a room, I think it was to remove a fireplace, and I started to use a chisel on the wall to release the fireplace, but, fortunately, before any damage was done, I discovered that the previous owner had done exactly what I am warning you not to do, cables were buried in the plaster, and if I had been a couple of millimeteres out I would possibly be dead, so ignore the 'good advice' you have been given and do the job properly.
Alan

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Alan Holmes wrote:

Not really. Unless you tend to hang pictures in the nude and live in a mud hut, you are unlikely to have a good enough earth reference to get more than a tingle even if you drove the nail right through a live conductor and then tried to hang on to the bit sticking out.

Sorry Alan, but you seem to be missing a number of fundamental points here. Might I suggest you read the IEE On Site Guide to get some grounding in the actual practices and requirements for a modern electrical installation:
(Amazon.com product link shortened)

Firstly have you stopped to think how the vast majority of houses are wired? The answer is with cables buried in the plaster. How do you think your house is wired?
If you want an easy to digest summary, then see here:
http://www.niceic.org.uk/downloads/Pocket%20Guide%206.pdf
Cables buried in plaster is the normal method of installation. It is fully compliant with BS7671. It is a safe and low risk method for cable installation so long as you follow the rules.
The rules state that there are permitted zones where cables may be buried without addition protection. These are vertically and horizontally aligned with any visible electrical accessory mounted on the wall, in a 6" zone at the corners of the room, and a 6" zone where the wall meets the ceiling.
If you want to run a cable outside of these zones then you need to either: ensure that it is buried >= 50mm deep from both sides of the wall, or protect it with earthed metal capping. The capping will not stop nail penetration, but will ensure a phase earth fault which will open the protective device quickly.

Your definition of "properly" seems a little odd. Unless you were to attempt to bury very heavy gauge steel conduit in the plaster (for which there will be insufficient depth), what you suggest will offer little if any protection against nail penetration.
--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:

"earthed conduit trunking or ducting satisfying the requirements of these Regulations for a protective conductor, or be mechanically protected sufficient to prevent penetration of the cable by nails, screws and the like" [522-06-06 (iii)]

But not capping, the sole purpose of which is to protect the cable prior to and during plastering.
--
Andy

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Andy Wade wrote:

I take it that 522-06-06 (i) only applies to cable with integrated metallic sheath like SWA then?
(At a glance it is easy to read the "incorporates an earthed metallic covering" and not pay attention to the end of the sentence!)

I stand corrected!
(never had the need to run a wire out of a permitted zone as yet - but no doubt the time will come)
--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:

Yes: SWA, FPxxx, MICC, etc.

Read it in conjunction with the preceding text - "A cable concealed [...] shall (i) incorporate an earthed metal covering [...], OR (ii) be [one of the specified concentric cables], OR (iii) be enclosed [in earthed conduit etc.] OR (iv) be installed in [one of the the safe zones].
[Using capping]

In any case earthing capping is hardly practicable. Inaccessible joints would have to be soldered, which, if memory serves me right, would need the use of acid cored solder or a similar type of flux which needs thorough washing off to avoid corrosion.
--
Andy

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