They did order six ships. Under the link for "Barbara" at
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:"By 1928, Flettner had secured orders for six new ships of the Barbara class. However, the global economic crash caused a decrease in consumer buying confidence. In addition to this, Marine Diesel Oil (MDO) and the related engine technology required to use it became readily and cheaply available. Fuel prices at that point meant that any savings achieved by the rotor were too small for shipping companies to consider the investment due to the lengthy payback period."
So it looks like things have gone full circle, with fuel being expensive enough again for rotors to make an acceptable economic contribution. If the Trump Strait opens up and fuel starts getting through, it might change again.
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She was well before her time. The US exports about 3.5 metric tons of rice...
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The Natural Philosopher
Indeed. Fuel is now so expensive that nuclear ships are cheaper ...and they don't have to rely on the wind at all...Its all about not the technology, which is simple and well understood, but the issues of insurance and access to ports etc. etc.
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Jethro
While nuclear fusion has been around since a few seconds after the beginning of time.
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Joe
Yes, but not *commercial* fusion. That's twenty years away yet, and has been for the last 75...
S
Spike
The following is translated from the Wikipedia entry in German, regarding the performance of the Barbara, and it suggests that the performance gains in normal operations of the ship was fairly modest:
Quote: On behalf of the German Reich Navy, the cargo ship was equipped with three Flettner rotors as auxiliary propulsion. During the trials, Barbara was operated by the shipping company in the Mediterranean service. Through these trials, Captain at Sea Walter Lohmann—who later became known through the Lohmann Affair—and the company’s inspector, Bruno Richter, established that the rotors generated an additional 440 kW of power at wind speeds of around Force 5 on the Beaufort scale.
Trial runs in winds of Force 4 to 6, with all engines running at full power, produced speeds of up to 13 knots. With one engine running in conjunction with the rotors, a speed of 9.5 to 10 knots was achieved. Under rotor power alone, a speed of 6 knots was still recorded.
The rotors were used for 30 to 40 percent of the voyage duration, during which an average increase in speed of 2 to 3 knots was recorded. During the trials, the rotors withstood severe weather of Force 10 to 12 and gave no cause for complaint, even while maneuvering or during cargo-handling operations.[1] Unquote
T
The Natural Philosopher
LOL :)
In fact all 'renewable' energy is just second or third hand fusion power.
T
The Natural Philosopher
Actually it may well finally be. But it's not germane. Fission is real, hear now technology and will last a lot longer than 75 years...
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Jethro
That doesn't suit the fossil fuel narrative though.
J
Jethro
That's just nitpicking
J
Jethro
I would argue tidal - based on "gravity" isn't. More to wind you up than from a position of principle though :)
J
Jethro
And cheaper than HS2
T
The Natural Philosopher
Or the renewable one
But there is no 'fossil fuel narrative' in the UK.
T
The Natural Philosopher
Of course it is. What created the earth and moon and put them where they are?
Nuclear fusion
T
The Natural Philosopher
Aircraft can be cheaper than trains for sure
S
Sam Plusnet
Quite. There was then no way to determine if it was commercial, since accountants would not be invented for another 13 billion years.
J
Joe
You think we've got problems?
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S
Spike
[…]
Using the speed and power data given above, and noting that the Barbara had two 530kW MAN engines, it’s possible to derive two estimates of the power added by using the rotors.
Increasing the speed from the rotors-only 6kt to the 10kt of the rotors plus 530kW of engine power, gives a rotor power of 146kW.
Increasing the speed from 6 to 12kt by the addition of 1060kW, gives a rotor power of 150kW.
Increasing the speed from 10 to 12kt by the addition of the second engine’s
530kW gives the rotor thrust of 115kW. However, if we assume a constant rotor thrust of 150kW, the ship’s speed would have been circa 12.1kt, probably indistinguishable from the 12kt mentioned in the trials.
For a 13kt speed the rotors would have to supply 433kW.
The data suggests that a rotor system for a low-speed ship of modest size - Barbara was 2077 tons deadweight - rotors add a modest level of power in the right conditions, such as the wind being on the ship’s beam for a significant part of the voyage.
The modern rotor ship E-Ship 1 (10,500 tdw) has four 25m high x 4m diameter rotors plus 2 3.5MW diesels and under the optimal conditions the rotors can produce about 1-1.2MW, which isn’t usually available for the whole of a voyage.
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Roger Hayter
They are selling some sort of investment product to insulate investors from government waste. (How would that work?) While the story could be true it could be completely fabricated. That doesn't seem to be illegal in America. Free speech and all that. Have you got any independent evidence about this alleged railroad scheme?
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Sam Plusnet
America had an "Underground Railroad" from the 1780s until the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863. That must have been very hard to see.
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Jeff Layman
I don't think there's any technical argument here. It's all still about money, really. Basically, do the rotors pay for themselves during their lifetime in fuel saving and any others (if the engines aren't running all the time, perhaps there will be a saving in servicing time intervals as well as the fuel costs)? If the answer is "yes" then they might well be installed. If it's "no", they won't. To the rotor capital and servicing costs should be added the time the ship is in dock to have them fitted, and so not making money. I would hope that the accountants have it all worked out.
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