Birth Pool Upstairs??

[Tony Bryer]

Surely (speaking as a mere man), whilst you may know that it will be a complicated delivery before the event, you only know that it's uncomplicated afterwards?

[John Rumm]

Well, I have left out much of the harrowing detail of what seemed like days of fumbled interventions that really served no purpose but caused much distress at the time. It certainly was not an experience that made one think, I am glad we are here.

Well we were 15 mins from the hospital, so I can't see it would make much difference in the total time to theatre - at the time it was decided that c section was the way forward, there was a 20 min wait anyway[1]. Midwives doing home delivers usually carry adequate monitoring equipment to identify problems of foetal distress.

[1] Then began the saga of the comedy anaesthetist who could not seem to administer a spinal block without half a dozen attempts and insisting it must be that the operating table is not level!

IIUC, that sort of turnaround is relatively rare... obviously one can never know if had circumstances been different, the outcome would change. It is worth bearing in mind though that usually once labour is established they only monitor for 10 - 15 mins out of the hour or so to allow mum to move about a bit - so even in hospital you could have gone

40 mins or more prior to an event like that being noticed.

Indeed - if there have been complications in the past, then it is not worth the risk.

Typically in this area they don't recommend home birth for a first one. They often offer the "DomINO" system (Domestic In Out) when at the onset of labour the midwife comes round to your house, then accompanies you to hospital for the actual delivery and then assuming all is well brings you back again. That keeps total hospital time down to as little as a couple of hours.

[Mary Fisher]

I can't think of anything worse for the mother.

But what does she count ...

Mary

[The Medway Handyman]

I'll type this slowly Dennis, so you can understand. The figure of £1.5 billion isn't mine, its the figure quoted by the NHS for treating 'smoking related disease's' so they include everything smoking related.

I haven't refused to add in anything, I'm just quoting the official NHS figures.

[The Medway Handyman]

Typical anti smoking fascist. Repeats parrot fashion whatever he is told because he is unable to think for himself. When faced with clear evidence that refutes his beliefs he becomes abusive.

I have no intention of giving up thank you. Why would I wish to give up something I regard as a great pleasure?

BTW, I don't intend to live forever. Oh, and non smokers die every day.

[The Medway Handyman]

Which is supported by clear scientific evidence.

For which there is no credible evidence whatsoever. I could make the claim that "there are probably far more cases in which eating marmite sandwiches has had consequences which contributed to demise" on that basis.

[Kevin]

not a fascist at all, I just don't need to justify not smoking the same way as smokers try and justify it, and as for "abuse" your having a laugh, if that was abuse you need to get out more. Any way this is way of topic and as your a die hard smoker that want to see his way and I am a non smoker and proud of it and that's all that matters, I quite like going in to a pub/building and not sharing yours or any one else smoke, I just wish all the smokers would dispose of their cigarette ends in a bin rather than chuck them wherever they happen to be at the time whether it be a church or beach they just dont care

[Mary Fisher]

I take your point but I think that 'voluntary' denotes assent.

Mary

[dennis]

See, just as I said. refuses to add in the true costs because he wants to believe smokers contribute more than they cost even when it is clearly untrue.

[dennis]

However as you clearly have no idea about the subject it wouldn't stand up to examination by experts unlike the smoking links.

[The Medway Handyman]

OK Dennis, font of all knowledge & wisdom, how much does all the other stuff the NHS has forgotton cost then?

I can't refuse to add in the true costs you f****it because the NHS don't say there are any.

So, tell us what it all costs Dennis. You must know surely?

[The Medway Handyman]

We could have had 'choice' but anti smokers don't want that, they wanted punative legislation to punish smokers.

'All' smokers? Bit of a sweeping (no pun intended) statement isn't it? Typical of the anti smoking lobby, make up the facts to suit your cause. 'All' smokers are litter louts now are they?

Of course the anti smoking fascists were so keen to ban smoking indoors, they didn't plan on providing bins for smokers outside - now they are whinging about the litter FFS. Comes under the heading of 'No Shit Sherlock'.

[Kevin]

your wasting your time Dennis, he sees the world as he wants to

[dennis]

I know that, he is a typical addict.

[The Medway Handyman]

Oh? And you & Dennis don't? You believed the figures about 35,000 Americans dieing without considering the maths. Dennis won't answer questions about extra costs he appears to have made up.

Perhaps I'm just not a gullible as you are.

[The Medway Handyman]

Why don't you juast answer the question about the amount of the extra costs you claim I refuse to consider?

[Kevin]

even if there is a bin its not used

now they are

this is just wasting bandwidth, I'm out as the Dragons would say

[Kevin]

I dont care if 1 or 1000000000 die it kills period bye

[John Rumm]

Well can't speak for ourselves obviously, but I know some people who went this route and thought it significantly better than traditional hospital delivery. Mainly because of the lack of admin hassle and the fact that you get to keep the one midwife all the way through the process regardless of how long it takes. (this service is also usually provided by the community midwives rather than the hospital ones... these (in our experience) tended to be a far more agreeable lot, aided by the fact that you had chance in the months of run up to get to know them and build a level of trust etc)

Not as much as one would hope some of the time - again often luck of the draw though.

[John Stumbles]

Indeed: the truth, but not the whole truth. Apart from costs to the NHS illness and disabilities in general, including smoking-related illness and disabilities in particular, cost society in other ways: time lost off work by the afflicted, and those looking after them, costs to local authority social services, and so on.