Best Condensing boilers

[Boovee]

Hi, I`ve trawelled through the NG`s regarding this but there are a lot of old posts on the subject. Can it be brought right bang up to date. The questions I`d like to know please are: Are Condensing boilers now reliable? If this is the case, are the Ravenheat models sold in B&Q any good.....older posts suggest not but why would B&Q stock them in they were inferior. Has this model improved? Is the Worcester still the King of the boiler crop? Why is there a reluctance for a fitter to suggest (or even pretend not to know about!!) a condensing bolier? Around what sort of reasonable price would I expect to pay for a good, not overly expensive decent boiler? Any recommendations? I am in the process of replacing my old gas boiler. The house will need an extra 4 radiators taking the total to 10. What sort of BTU rating condensating boiler would I need? I do not intend to run my two showers of this new boiler (not yet any way). Thanks in advance for the replies. I know there are lots of questions but I have very limited time to get a replacement....... DB

[Andy Hall]

Definitely as long as you buy one manufactured in or using parts and designs from Germany or Holland.

These are at the low end of the market to be kind about it.

It's one of the best among the boilers having large sales volume in the UK, along with Vaillant. There are better products such as Viessmann and MAN, but these are in the £1500 area.

Because either they don't understand them or have been hanging around plumber's merchants too much and listening to old wive's tales. The early generation of UK manufactured condensing boilers were not designed properly and used inappropriate materials. As a result they were unreliable. The heating installation industry is conservative.

Within the next year or so, most new boilers sold will be condensing types as a result of changes to the Building Regulations so they will soon learn about them.

The Worcester Bosch products that you mention are considered to be good products and value for money.

Forget about using BTUs and work entirely in kW and metric units. The arithmetic is easier and you won't make mistakes by accidentally mixing units.

It is better to do a heat loss calculation for each room of the house and work out the radiator sizings from that. You can then add those together, apply a margin of say 20% and go from there. It is meaningless to work in terms of number of radiators because they vary in size enormously - from say 300W to 6kW.

You can get calculator programs from radiator manufacturer web sites to do the sums.,

Having said that, modern condensing boilers modulate the heat output to match the load, so the point is to go for an adequately large boiler to cover the worst case. It will reduce output when the weather is warmer.

If you use a fast revovery hot water cylinder, you will want plenty of heat output from the boiler for that, which is why 25-30kW boilers have become typical.

.andy

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[fred]

In article , Boovee writes

If you're a bit tight then try to pick one from this list:

're apparently a non profit organisation & the prices are the lowest I have seen anywhere. Link courtesy of IMM.

[Andy Hall]

There is, however a catch.

You have to buy through one of their approved installers, and there does not appear to be any control over prices that they charge for installation.

One can tell that this is not a commercial organisation. Who in their right mind would call their website "uselessenergy".

I wonder if their products work with useful energy as well :-)

.andy

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[IMM]

I

Not so. You can buy a boiler direct and when fitted they drop £50 off the already very low prices. Ring them up. You have to pick up the boiler yourself or the local Plumb Center may deliver free. That is something you can arrange with them. They will send an info pack. The catch is if your local council is in with the scheme.

[John Rumm]

Note also they quote prices exclusive of VAT - so remember to add that.

;-)

[IMM]

They quote "inclusive" of VAT.

[Andy Hall]

"Through EnergySmart, heating installers nationwide can access to discounted solar systems and boilers. Through this service we aim to increase the installations of these measures to make energy savings and help the environment."

.andy

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[IMM]

Sorry got that wrong. Price are exclusive of VAT, but include the flue, which many outlets do not.

[IMM]

I said ring them up.

[Andy Hall]

"Prices exclude VAT but include Standard Flue, Fixing Jig, and LPG conversion kit where appropriate."

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

What is the catch with the local authority, apart from the obvious drawback of doing anything involving them?

Are you saying that it is not a condition of the scheme to use one of their registered installers?

.andy

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[Dave Plowman (News)]

You can't get a grant unless you use a registered installer?

[Andy Hall]

That's what I'm asking. It's what the site suggests in that it tells the installer how to order.....

.andy

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[John]

MUCH better now but I'd suggest you opt for one with a stainless steel heat exchanger rather than Aluminium purely from personal experience of failures of Aluminium ones

Personally I'd go for a Glow Worm HXi model of appropriate rating. (Cxi if a Combi) Be aware however that if you expect it to give its full performance your existing radiator sizing "may" not be optimal.

For a long time I advised my customers to consider ALL the implications fully before blindly going for a condenser but apart from the practicality of routing a condensate to waste pipe there isn't really a lot of other work for the installer. Now maintaining it afterwards requires a lot more technical ability but most of the plumbers avoid this sort of follow up work like the plague, prefering to let those who can do this sort of work.

This sort of question cannot be answered simply. You will have to carry out a proper analysis of the house heating loading using one of the recognised methods such as the Myson HeatLossManager program. I undestand this is not presently available on their website but someone on here is usually able to email you a copy.

Winter is weeks away yet (I hope)

[IMM]

You obviously don't know much about boilers then. The current aluminium boilers are silicon coated.

And what might they be? What are all these ALL implications?

Plumbers are good for drains an gutters. Heating should be left to heating engineers. The maintenance of a condensing boiler is no different to a regular system boiler.

This man calls himself the boilerdoc. What a cheek.

[IMM]

Not all LAs are in the scheme, although most are.

Yes. Ring them up. They will supply only, and drop you £50 when fitted, by way of a letter from you.

[Andy Hall]

I may do.

I still wonder whether the overall cost including fitting will be cheaper however. If the fitter doesn't make a margin on the boiler purchase because the price is now exposed to the customer, he would probably want to make it up on the fitting - unless short of work of course. All assuming that the customer doesn't DIY the installation.

.andy

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[raden]

In message , IMM writes

So why are you getting involved in the thread?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

And just how well tested is this process? It's not so long ago a coating to allow car pistons to run direct in aluminium was found to be dissolved by impurities in some brands of petrol...