Bang goes Zog energy.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

so brian is wrong again....no surprise there then....

[Richard]

The rip off is people who do not honestly need such support taking advantage.

[Roland Perry]

I'm quite sure mine isn't anything like as much as that.

Especially as "night" is only midnight to 7am (my supplier, my area). Even if everything was on just as much as during the day (which clearly they aren't) that's less than 1/3 of the day.

Let's 1000 units @ 20.1p = 201 see: 667 units @ 23.5p = 156 333 units @ 12.45p = 41 ---- 197 <- is that really worth the palaver?

My conclusion has always been that *unless* you have had a significant number of storage radiators (and those won't be on 12 months of the year anyway) the whole economy 7 thing is a scam.

A full EV typically doubles a household's electricity consumption, so that would be a good way to get over a third. And hopefully the charger has an automatic timer in it.

[Andrew]

£44 for a box of crap that would have cost £15 at Lidl !??

[Andrew]

You need look no further than the motability scheme/scam for evidence of that. The british will tell what ever massive porkies necessary to get one of those at zero cost to themselves (and no, the leasing payments are just 'paid' out of freebie benefits)

[Brian]

Which part of many areas don?t you understand?

While people like you were watching TV on furlough/ benefits, volunteers were packing and delivering food to people who needed it.

Unfortunately, some went to freeloaders.

[Brian]

Exactly.

?More money than they know what to do with.?

[Andrew]

20 million UK citizens are freeloading in one way or another.

Every female who has had (or intends to have) more than 2 kids when the total income or her and her partner (if there is one!!) is less the the amount that would put her/them into 40% tax, is being subsidised by other people. And since 1945 that subsidy has been disguised as the 'national debt'. This is just a tax on future generations, while the annual interest (currently about £80 Billion) mostly hits current taxpayers. The usual government 'get out of jail for free' card is to engineer a period of inflation to erode the debt, but this time the biggest chunk of index-linked debt that HM treaury has to budget for is the state pension plus the massive unfunded inflation-proof public sector pensions. They haven't issued index-linked gilts for years which is why anyone buying them now and holding to redemption will suffer an absolute loss, while conventional gilts are paying 0.7% per year if held to redemption. The more inflation goes up, the more the government has to pay out to cosset those 20 million.

I heard on the BBC news earlier about how GPs are being asked to concentrate on the massive backlog of cases when they are spending most of their time 'reviewing and managing' Britains army of 'diabetics' and other so-called vulnerable people. GP's apparently get paid extra money for doing the latter

[Andrew]

It only ever 'worked' because we used to have coal and nuclear power stations belting out power at night when demand was much less. Hence storage rads were a means of having a distributed 'battery' system all around the country to soak up this power and provide some extra income to the generators.

With the demise of coal and less nuclear, and more highly variable power sources, the concept of off-peak electricity is dead in the water.

[Theo]

It's 29%, so not far off.

I think it made sense at one time, because there was a much greater difference between day and night rate.

Then we had coal power stations that were very slow to get up to temperature once they had gone 'off the boil', so it made sense to keep them running overnight even though demand wasn't there. E7 was a way to make use of that 'free' electricity, by stimulating people to install electric heating to use the cheap rate, replacing them burning a coal fire.

Nowadays generation is mostly renewables and gas, which don't have that kind of excess of night time power (nuclear would have, but there isn't enough to cover base loads and also provide a surplus), so it isn't 'free' any more.

Demand does still back off overnight, so supply/demand means prices are lower - modern E7 captures that difference, but it's not as big as it used to be.

The modern day situation is times when there's loads of wind or solar, when occasionally the wholesale price becomes low or even negative. But for those you need a smart tariff.

If you have an EV you also need to consider how many hours you need to charge for, ie how much power you can draw during your cheap period. Some of the smart tariffs with 'narrow and deep' cheap windows (eg 3 hours at

5p/kWh) may be harder to exploit in that respect.

Theo

[Brian]

It has always worked for us.

BTW, they is no real palaver.

You request it, they change your meter.

At worst when I submit readings I read 3 dials ( inc gas) rather than 2.

We would run the DW overnight most times anyway- it gets filled during the day, especially with just two of us, and it is logical to run it full.

Washing machine goes on at night and washing gets hung out in morning- logical again.

Our car the timer is in car. I suspect some chargers have timers.

Incidentally, Ofgen number for average daily electric consumption per house (2.4 people) is approx 8kWhr.

An EV does, typically, 3miles per kWh of battery capacity- you can squeeze more but 3 is a good working number.

(The Ofgen number seems low to me but ?.)

[Roland Perry]

In message <soac5b$1j46$ [e-mail]>, at 11:54:19 on Thu, 2 Dec

2021, Andrew snipped-for-privacy@mybt>> In message <soa3il$lnk$ [e-mail], at 09:27:49 on Thu, 2 Dec

Hopefully the white meter's discount was more than today's, partly because of the way they cunningly increase your daytime rate (something they don't go out of their way to tell you).

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

totly

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

total fly men and big fat wummin

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

you can't but freebees

[Roland Perry]

The palaver is working out whether your overnight consumption for those

7 hours is high enough to trigger a cheaper bill, and then arranging for your appliances to come on in the middle of the night.

I tend to prefer cooking my dinner in the early evening, for example.

And what percentage of your bill is accounted for by those two appliances? If it's a third, I think you need to buy more economical ones.

10k miles a year is 27 a day, so that's almost exactly 3 * 8.

Ours is closer to 15. But we do have two people working from home all day (and have done most of the last 30yrs).

[newshound]

The regulator does not have any money

They were *encouraged* to, because reducing uncertainty for consumers is supposed to be a good thing. And then for those with the (arguably more appropriate) variable rate tariffs the Government plonked a Price Cap on top of them, to "protect" consumers. So they could wave a flag to voters about how good they were being.

Just like Brexit, having the cake *and* eating it.

[Brian]

Your idea of a palaver is different to mine or, more likely, you insist on justifying your position is right without knowing the facts.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

tell them to get a real job

[Dave Plowman (News]

Surely if you'd saved money by getting the best deal on energy, you'd have been able to afford to pay for grocery deliveries rather than rely on handouts?