B&Q Solar

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:18:58 +0100 someone who may be Roger wrote this:-

money down the nuclear hole since the Department of Energy was abolished.

[Andy Hall]

This is curious.

You seem to hold the words of the wind industry and promotion web sites as Gospel.

Rather inconsistent.

[Roger]

The message from David Hansen contains these words:

So you have nothing rational to say on the subject, just abuse for which you have no real evidence whatsoever.

[Huge]

Like I said some while ago ...

[DJT]

Yes I cant find anything realistically priced to carry out a test Im now searching for DIY kits, but it looks like this type of thing is no longer fashionable. The URLs that P Parry posted I have already seen, none will give an accurate figure to work with were I would intend to install the wind generator. I live looking out into the Irish Sea, so not many trees live long enough to gauge how much they bend.

[AJH]

I'm prepared to remain a bit ambiguous on that, in general I accept that financial return on the investment is a decent metric but once you try to allow for external costs like pollution, climate change etc. and their effect on sustainability then I would allow a value on "satisfaction" for having made a contribution. In my case I have never played with a playstation or similar advanced toy but am prepared to spend some spare money tinkering with renewables but I suggest this is insignificant compared with the amounts of money some people can afford to indulge in luxuries like sports cars and home entertainment.

Ah but I didn't mean standalone nor long term storage with batteries.

AJH

[AJH]

I tended to take your word on them, so no. I can see there may be a case that the grid can be used to average out peaks between different wind turbines and that taken overall, though it would involve small losses in the grid, the peaks would level out as the gusts propagated through an area. I was interested in the benefit a house might have from a single turbine under the charging-payment regime might be available. Here the "peaky" nature would tend to work against matching the generation to the house load, hence my interest in a different approach. The bug appears to be the need to trade the electricity first before buying it back and using it to gain the ROC, which is the significant attraction to a home generator.

AJH

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:18:47 +0100 someone who may be AJH wrote this:-

Indeed. Nobody asks about the payback period of these.

Then you are presumably speaking of a system connected to the external supply. In this case you will have to put up with the "gold plated" inverter. One of the main items of "gold plating" is to ensure that it will disconnect the turbine if there is an external supply failure.

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:25:06 +0100 someone who may be Andy Hall wrote this:-

Incorrect.

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:44:50 +0100 someone who may be Roger wrote this:-

Pointing out that the DTI are part of the nuclear lobby is simply a conclusion based on their past performance. Your assertion about this is mildly amusing, but does not demonstrate that my conclusion is flawed.

[Roger]

The message from David Hansen contains these words:

I take anything even remotely connected to B.Liar with at least a pinch of salt but while government departments can put a favourable gloss on projects their political masters approve of they, unlike you, do not disseminate pure propaganda.

Your conclusion is not so much flawed as totally and irredeemably opposite to that that any disinterested person could possibly draw from the facts.

[Andy Hall]

Really?

You seem to always quote these organisations as justification for anything promoting or justifying windmills.

[Peter Parry]

Oregon Scientific do some which includes logging software for a PC. The La Crosse WS3502 Wind Weather Station at about GBP 110 also includes a PC interface

You could also try to see if there is a weather station near you, they will have historic data.

has a UK wind speed map.

list some amateur stations

links to a vast store of past weather data - click on a site and then sect it again under "Datos Históricos - Clima"

also useful

If the trees get blown away that's a pretty good indicator :-) You can use bush/shrub growth as well, if plant growth is noticeably and consistently skewed it indicates the wind is both pretty steady and of adequate speed.

[AJH]

And of course why should they, these are the rewards they have worked towards, had the historical energy prices been higher they may well have chosen differently but also the economy may not have grown enough for these luxuries to have been generally available.

Not in this case, it's an idea that I touted here a while back but my lack of space or wind resource makes playing with it impractical, I think similar installed power via pv is way out of my league.

As I understand it this is only necessary if you intend to back feed the grid, so as long as this cannot happen there is no danger to people. The downside of this is that if you are not capable of backfeeding the grid then you are not eligible for ROCs on your production.

AJH

>

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:00:52 +0100 someone who may be Roger wrote this:-

The recent "energy review" is a perfect example of regulatory capture. Government as the mouthpiece for a lobby, rather than the regulator. It goes far beyond a favourable gloss.

Readers can decide for themselves on the matter though. It is mildly amusing that you are now attacking me, rather then discussing the subject. That's always a good sign.

Ah proof by assertion. Usually the resort of those with no better arguments.

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:19:58 +0100 someone who may be AJH wrote this:-

A separate electrical system connected to the turbine presumably.

I'm not sure that is the case. IIRC I have seen one of the electricity companies offering to organise these for island supplies. Presumably the logic is that the building would otherwise be connected to the UK system.

[Roger]

The message from David Hansen contains these words:

So you say without ever producing any evidence to back up you spurious claims.

You haven't actually provided a single 'fact' for our readers to weigh in evidence.

The 'proof' is in the figures in the report which you have rubbished on no better a basis than they don't conform to your doctrine. If the figures on lifetime CO2 I quoted are wrong what do you think are the correct figures and where is the evidence to support the figures you are going to put forward? You are going to put forward some figures aren't you?

[Andy Hall]

All of which demonstrates that this is complete Jodrell.

Look, if it makes you and DH happy, rush out and buy the stuff from B&Q.

It would be nice to have the market stats on this so that I can optimise when I buy and sell Kingfisher stock.

It would even be worth promoting this to the gullible to maximise that over a short time period so that funds can be shifted at the right moment,

[Tony Bryer]

I was in B&Q this evening (they had everything except M6 studding ) and was looking at these windmills. According to the leaflet they connect into your house mains via a fused spur unit.

ISTM that the only way these can work is for a relay or whatever to be closed when the voltage being generated is higher than that of the incoming supply, say 233V v. 230v incoming. But once that relay closed the house voltage effectively becomes the turbine voltage and there must be a tiny bit of back feeding. So what happens if there is a power cut in a continuous wind? I presume that in an urban situation your windmill is now trying to feed the whole street and the voltage drops below some threshold at which point it drops until and does not reconnect until the supply voltage is restored. But if every house had one?

[Andy Hall]

Despite all of that, were you tempted?