asbestos cement garage roof

[John Nagelson]

My garage roof is made of corrugated asbestos, probably "asbestos cement". It's not leaking, but it's old. I'm getting someone in to replace the lintel and redo a bit of brickwork above it. What's the position? Am I right to think that if the asbestos gets broken, then fibres get released and basically I need to hire some asbestos professionals?

Incidentally I'll be selling the house, which is in need of various kinds of attention. There's no confusion over the asbestos - the garage roof is certainly made of it, although I don't know what kind. It was mentioned on my surveyor's report when I bought it. The asbestos will be brought to the attention of my buyer. Should I just leave the garage alone and let the next person deal with it, or what? After all, they'll have to do loads of other work...and the price will reflect this.

John

[Tabby]

heavens no.

It would be unusual for a surveyor to test any suspected asbestos.

If it were mine I'd dispose of the abestos myself, as whoever buys is likely to be looking to pay someone silly money to get rid of it. It needs to be double bagged and taken to a tip that accepts asbestos.

NT

[MuddyMike]

A pal disposed of an old asbestos panel Uni-Seco prefab building a while back. A builder had been charged thousands by a specialist removal company to dismantle a similar one nearby so he just dug a bloody great hole with a JCB and pushed it in. He did limit his exposure by soaking everything first, wearing a fairly sophisticated mask, and dumping his overalls in the final part of the hole.

Mike

[dave]

While that';; work ok :-), is it legal? I have no idea - just wondered.

[Invisible Man]

As I understand it burying it other than on an authorised site is not legal. Not all areas accept double wrapped asbestos cement at tips. In Essex the council will collect a small amount of asbestos cement free in each council tax year. Nothing like the amount involved in a garage roof though. I am hoping my corrugated asbestos cement garage roof manages a few years yet. Breaking wetted asbestos cement in good condition is not really hazardous. Drilling, sanding etc is. I dealt with plenty of asbestosis and mesothelioma claims years age and the latter is not a pleasant way to die.

I would leave it. The new owner might want to do something completely different with the garage.

[geoff]

In message , MuddyMike writes

I spent some time building those garages, I was quite often the person standing underneath while the holes were being drilled to accept the roof bolts

Asbestos cement really isn't that dangerous compared with other varieties

"Asbestos exposure becomes a health concern when high concentrations of asbestos fibers are inhaled over a long time period.[30] People who become ill from inhaling asbestos are often those who are exposed on a day-to-day basis in a job where they worked directly with the material. As a person's exposure to fibers increases, because of being exposed to higher concentrations of fibers and/or by being exposed for a longer time, then that person's risk of disease also increases. Disease is very unlikely to result from a single, high-level exposure, or from a short period of exposure to lower levels.[30]"

I suppose I fall into that category, but I don't lose sleep over it. Someone breaking up a roof once in their life really shouldn't be that concerned

[Tabby]

Also a lot of people hear the word asbestos and freak. They've no idea what to do about it, and just go into an irrational panic. You lose buyers that way

Asbestos buildings may be perfectly serviceable as well as safe if still in fair condition, but despite this almost no-one wants to retain them.

NT

[MuddyMike]

Some 30 years ago I built a 12ft x 30ft shed/workshop from a load of second-hand Uni-Seco panels scrounged from the demolition of old prefab buildings at RAF Swanton Morley. Being two layers of asbestos separated by a hardwood frame with some kind of insulation filling the centre they made an excellent building. I roofed it using some agricultural fibre and plastic corrugated sheets, the name of which escapes me now. That building was still standing two years ago when I last had contact with the folk that bought the house. My thoughts now is did I inhale anything nasty when I cut them all down in height with an electric saw? Was that insulation material some kind of nasty blue asbestos? When I did it I was oblivious of any danger from asbestos dust. As I was at about 10 years old when I helped my grandfather wire brush clean some second-hand asbestos sheets he was using to re roof his garage. Not that I let it worry me, what is done is done...

Mike

[fred]

When I were a lad I fell through an asbestos roof. Tore a huge hole in the back of my thigh. While face down on the operating table I kept complaining to the surgeon about the pain in my foot. At first he just dismissed me but eventually put two or three stitches in the gash across my instep just to shut me up. The cretin actually stitched a small piece of asbestos, which was in the cut, into my foot. I had a strange lump there for a long time until after a few years it started to weep. Turns out gangrene had set in. Had to be cut out.

I think a lot of tosh is talked about the dangers of asbestos. The E.S.B. (Electricity Supply Board in Ireland) knocked down de- commissioned turf burning power stations some years ago. When asked how they had disposed of the asbestos, with which they were stuffed, they replied they had dumped it in a local bog. Where exactly ? Mmmmmmmm can't remember where. Which shut the environmentalists up PDQ as presumably the eco damage sustained by digging up a whole bog looking for a load of asbestos would have been completely un-green.

Ironing boards had asbestos pads years ago and ISTR asbestos sheet being used for soffits at one time also. Up until about 30 odd years ago the majority of factories and warehouses were roofed with the stuff Strange, never heard on any mass deaths because of that. Same goes for lead paint. Another load of b****x talked about disposing of it.

Just break it up into small pieces and black bag it.

Paul Mc Cann

[Invisible Man]

Intact asbestos sheets and sealed in asbestos is no problem. I used to blow out with a foot pump in a confined garage the dust from brake drums when linings contained asbestos. Now we know the risks I wouldn't do that now if they still contained asbestos. As I said in an earlier post I have dealt with clams from those suffering slow painful deaths from asbestos related diseases. I give asbestos suitable respect just like I don't cross the road without looking.

[Tabby]

Unfortunately there are mass deaths happening from it, the stats are pretty horrid. But as someone said, its from a lot of exposure over years, not the odd one off trace level exposure.

NT

[Invisible Man]

One fibre can kill you but obviously if you spent your career putting in asbestos insulation or washed overalls for someone who did you are far more likely to contract something.

[Tabby]

The much heard claim that one fibre can kill is baseless. Its the result of courtroom bs. There's simply no knowledge as to what constitutes a safe dose.

NT

[Invisible Man]

Agreed nobody knows what the safe limit is. There are a lot of things that can kill and one fibre is probably one of the least likely but having spent over 35 years around insurance claims I wouldn't rule much out. I live quite happily with asbestos cement soffits and garage roof and I have broken up sheet asbestos. It's a bit like circular saws, angle grinders etc. You take a bit of care with them but you could be dead the first time you fall off a ladder using one.

[Tabby]

te:

quite so. I suggest that a fair starting point for what constitutes safe with asbestos is the exposure level at which the death rate is undetectable from the background of similar events. We don't know what that dose is, I'd be happy to bet though that its well above a one fibre exposure.

NT

[Andy Dingley]

30 years ago (1980, not 1970) we had sensible policies on asbestos. Blue had been extinct since the '50s. Brown was disappearing from the few specialised uses for which it was still useful, although a health risk. White was being used safely, in well-regulated factories, and those using it on-site were aware of how to avoid increasing this risk. This was about as good as it got.

Today we've gone stupid. We panic at the merest trace of white asbestos safely embedded in a cement matrix, when 35 years ago we'd have spanked any naughty apprentice who suggested it was a bad idea to have the stuff blowing in the streets like a snowstorm (look into the real history of Cyril Smith MP).

If you've got white asbestos in cement, avoid breaking it up any further and dispose of what you do have through the council's channel. If you've got fluffy white asbestos, read up the relevant protocols and deal with it accordingly (really not that hard). If you're commercial, farm it out to the relevant people, because your need SAFETY PAPER more than you need safety.

[geoff]

Nobody was intending to

Is this Harry, look at me I know what I'm talking about" spouting fantasies again

Why - do you want to corner the market?

[Man at B&Q]

SWMBO did that when the survey on a house we were buying came back with the news that it had an asbestos cement water tank. I made her 'phone the vendors agent with the bad news.

They did.

MBQ

[Man at B&Q]

:

You clearly don't understand the nature of risk and risk management, let alone statistics.

A girl died recently after her first kiss. Should we ban kissing?

MBQ

[Martin Bonner]

No, but my understanding was that the most likely explanation is that "one fibre can kill" is true - in the sense that in each case of fatal lung cancer there will have been a single fibre which caused the irritation which started the cancer. Of course, the chance that any one fibre will kill is microscopically small; but to be safe you want the chances that NONE of the fibres you are exposed to kill you to be high.