Are push fit plumbing fittings any good?

Definitely dIMM

Fit a copper tank and keep that combi at bay

Reply to
Matt
Loading thread data ...

Thanks for all the advice. I'm sorry if I inadvertently started a fight. Seems like there's more to this push fit stuff than I thought, I think I'll take it back and get some traditional compression and soldered fittings - I know what I'm doing with them.

Reply to
Steve

Not really. The instructions are completely clear.

They said that the inventive may do that. They didn't say that they thought it was a good idea.

I certainly agree with respect to using good quality tools. However, I've had perfectly good results with a £5 pipe cutter as well as a £15 one. I may be sufficiently inventive to have success with other things like a mitre saw - who knows. I also follow manufacturers instructions unless there is a very good reason not to do so. Here there really isn't.

Reply to
Andy Hall

What Hepworth said was as clear as mud. They say don't use a hacksaw, then say you can do the cut with a variety of tools. How are you supposed to cut the pipe without a plastic pipe cutter? A James Bond lazer? To me is clear that they meant don't cut with a hacksaw without trimming or squaring, pushing in the pipe insert and then pushing the fitting on. THAT is looking for trouble, and that is what they meant.

If they didn't think it was a good idea they wouldn't have said it. It is clear they said you can make the cut "without" a plastic pipe cutter.

There is, if you don't have a good cutter available. If you have a good cutter use it. If not you can do the plastic pipe cut by using a hacksaw, stanley knife and fine file. I have done many that are as good as a cut by my full professional cutter, and never had any problems. And I wasn't even that inventive. I used everyday tools in my tool box.

Do you have to be so moronic?

Reply to
timegoesby

I am no professional that is why I look in here and other forums. I am a jack of all trades, master of none. A plumber can thread 6" pipes, I have never threaded a pipe. After 7 years, I can fit a heating and water system in plastic and copper as good as them in a domestic house only. My craft skills are as good as theirs. Most of what I do is rule of thumb and revert to books, manufacturers and groups like this one to expand on. My main points are: as less space taken up as possible by cylidners and boilers (of elimination of one or both), the highest DHW flow rate as possible for high performance showers and no pipes seen. To achieve something as simple as that can be very complicated.

Reply to
timegoesby

I can imagine that.

His assertion was that Speedfit products were always crap because he had a bad experience after fitting one without following the instructions. This simply isn't true.

There can be manufacturing defects in any product. This is not the same thing as claining that a product is bad when you don't do what the manufacturer says.

I'm not in the least bit confused. The manufacturer's instructions (from several manufacturers) are completely clear as well.

It is also doing what the manufacturers explicitly say not to do.

Wonderful but irrelevent.

So he believes. I don't believe him, given his admission that he cut the pipe with a hacksaw.

.... and the point is?

How would you know? In fact I have, quite a bit, as have many other people, quite successfully in this NG.

Lovely, but not really relevent.

I understand his *claim* perfectly. Given the circumstances of not folowing the instructions, I simply don't believe him.

In this NG, they don't.

The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly acceptable clean, square cut using a variety of tools. "

The only recommendation is to use a cutter, and that is the point.

One doesn't need to spend a lot of money on a special pipe cutter. For a few joints, a £5 is perfectly good and will cut a clean square end according to the manufacturers instructions.

How can advice in accordance with what the manufacturer says be ill advice? He does not need to buy a £15 cutter - a £5 is perfectly good for the job.

It doesn't to anybody else.

In effect it says that if you want to bodge, then you can. The other paragraph explains how the job should be done properly.

It's a throwaway remark and not a recommendation that the user should do anything other than use a cutter.

The rest of the information, *and* the instructions, and (it appears) every other manufacturer's instructions say *DO* use a pipe cutter,

*DON'T* use a hacksaw. It really couldn't be any clearer.

They probably do. If they thought it had any merit, they and other vendors would say so in their literature. They don't. There is a clue there......

Even worse because it mangles the end of the pipe.

It may or may not be. THe manufacturers all tell the installer to use a cutter, which costs about the same as a hacksaw anyway.

That's a feeble attempt to draw attention away from the main point, which is that the manufacturers specify a way to do the job properly. It's also something of a put down to suggest that a pipe cutter should be used if you haven't got the skills.

So you can cut a square, clean end on a piece of pipe.... big deal; so can I. In fact, I was doing some plastic plumbing this afternoon. I could have used a hacksaw, a mitre saw, a pair of shears, a band saw, a table saw and at least 10 others if I had thought about it. So what. The £5 cutter came to hand before the £15 one, so I used it. All ends were clean and square first time and all went into the fittings first time with no problems at all - just as they always do.

Which is why the manufacturers recommend using a cutter.

This is rubbish. Of course I *can* get a clean and square edge using any one of at least 10 tools. Why would I bother when I can do it quickly and easily with a £5 cutter?

Hardly. There is no obsession about using a pipe cutter at all. I have simply pointed out that the manufacturers specify this as the tool to use and explicitly say that a hacksaw should not be used. They go on to say that people may well do something else. That's an observation and nothing more.

You're trying to justify not buying a simple pipe cutter at a cost of £5 - basically the cost of a few fittings - and this is nonsense.

Probably because of poor craft skills I would imagine.

I certainly agree about not using cheap tools - I almost always buy at or near to the top end. However, for pipe cutters for plastic plumbing pipe a £5 cutter does as good a job (for me at least) as a more expensive one.

I do also have a more expensive ratchet type cutter which I bought when I needed to cut nylon pipe for compressed air use. This material is tougher than the water pipe and it was tough going with the £5 cutter, easy with the ratchet one.

>
Reply to
Andy Hall

In their printed instructions and web site, and indeed, in the corresponding literature from other manufacturers, the procedure and tools to use and not to use are completely clear.

You are trying to make more from the throwaway paragraph about people being able to find alternatives that will do an acceptable job than was intended. They have simply said it's possible, not that it's recommended.

They did say that the inventive will find ways....

Who knows what they meant. It's irrelevent. What they actually

*say* is to use a pipe cutter and not to use a hacksaw. There is no comment on what one should do if one chooses to use a hacksaw. In other words - you are on your own if you do. Nothing was said or implied.

It was a throwaway observation that people do find ways to do things that differ from the method given in the instructions. Nothing more than that. Pretty obvious.

Of course. However, none of them are recommended and hacksaw is specifically excluded.

Why wouldn't you? A £5 cutter doesn't even come to more than about

20% of the price of the bits for the project.

Great, but this is not what the manufacturer says that one should do. The original question was from somebody who had not done plastic plumbing before with push fit fittings. Maybe he could have cut the pipe with a hacksaw, maybe not. Using the correct tool, which was hardly a big deal he would have got a good result.

A £5 cutter for a small job like this would have been perfectly good.

Somehow I think that somebody who advocates using a tool specifically advised against by the product manufacturer when the correct tool is easily obtainable for a fraction of the project cost, is not speaking from a position of strength when he suggests this.

Reply to
Andy Hall

I'm glad we clarified that point.

I have, but not quite of that size.

I've done complete CH and DHW systems in a number of houses and have done a better job than most plumbers simply because I take the time and trouble to do so properly.

It's very unwise to rely on rule of thumb - much better to plan and execute to the plan.

Must be very small places if that's an issue.

That's certainly true.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Mike has a go at you once over your arrogant attitude and gave you the title Lord Hall for your pretentious attitude. Just take notice of people who know more and have more experience than yourself, and that includes me. I regard myself as a semi pro in plumbing as I do it to earn a living and come up with good quality results. You are clearly a DIY man and it abundantly shows. It is clear you are a moron with an IMM obsession not worth bothering with.

I use Google so I can't plonk you.

Reply to
timegoesby

Don't be silly. They are very easy to use, and very reliable. Many of us have used all the main makes of pushfit with no problems.

Reply to
Grunff

I believe that that was IMM, but it really makes no difference to me anyway.

All that I have done is to point out the methods shown in the instructions of several manufacturers of a particular type of product.

You can choose to disagree if you wish, but it doesn't alter what is clearly written (not by me). I wouldn't have described that as arrogant. If anything, I would put it to you that the boot is on the other foot since you feel that you know better than several manufacturers.

ROTFL. I certainly listen to and take ideas from those with more experience and training than myself. More importantly, I do my own reading and checking when needed. Somehow, I don't see you in any of those categories.

Hmmmmmm.......

Curious. Just a short while ago, you said that you weren't professional. Which is it?

I have never claimed to be anything else. However, I have been doing a broad range of DIY and craft activities for 30 and in some areas 40 years. I tackle things that I enjoy doing and/or can do cost effectively and/or can do better than asking somebody else to do it. I set myself a pretty high standard. Against that, there are some things where I am not satisfied with my abilities such as plastering so I will hire someone to do them.

Not really. It's interesting that you share some of his personality traits such as claiming to be a professional (implication being that what is said must be right) as soon as holes are found in what you say.

It's further interesting that people in this NG who really are professionals don't trumpet that fact and seldom if ever use it to justify what they are saying.

I think that that explains everything.....

Reply to
Andy Hall

If you have the knife, you don't need the saw do you...

You are sounding ever more like your mentor.

Reply to
John Rumm

In article , snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com writes

I can now see why you agree so much with John Burns (Drivel), anonymous poster, listen to me I've sold more houses than you've had hot dinners.. pursuing pointless arguments

Reply to
David

You are Drivel and I claim my 5 pounds.

While it is *possible* to use a hacksaw and trim to give a decent end on the workbench, it's near impossible in an awkward location, so just as with everything get the correct tool for the job.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

I would go with the plastic and get the £5 cutter, its always useful to have it because you're bound to do some more. I fitted my first complete system with plastic about 6 yrs ago using a cheap cutter, no problems at all, I still have it and use it regularly (with new blades). Plastic is the quickest and simplest plumbing system you can fit.

Reply to
David

A laser is no good as the wavelength has to be optimised for the spectral absorption characteristics of the pipe and even with careful modulation of the power output depending on surface reflectivity you tend to get slight burrs on the far side of the cut and undercuts on the nearside. If you use a waterjet instead and rotate the pipe at around 4.8mm per second then the cuts are close to perfect especially if you control the pressure accurately.

This is an ideal DIY solution that can be knocked together in literally minutes with a standard shower pump and a Rinnai water heater. I would therefore recommend you get a water jet cutter than attempt to use a hacksaw as its much quicker especially if you have a ready supply of running water at the appropriate pressure.

Using a hacksaw is not very productive anyway especially given the added finishing process time after the cut has been made and if you get the job finished quicker there is more valuable selling time on the counter.

Reply to
Matt

You forgot dIMM buys his hacksaws in bulk so its much cheaper his way (neglecting the damage costs)

Reply to
Matt

You do. It is very difficult to slice a plastic barrier pipe with a Stanley knife. Use the hacksaw and trim off. It must be square, the Stanley and file will help here.

I can see how he feels.

Reply to
timegoesby

They breed them on this group that is for certain.

Reply to
timegoesby

Oh he is back....

How do you know? Have you ever done it? Take to flying kites. You and wind go together. :-)

Reply to
timegoesby

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.