Any lock experts out there?

[Roger Mills]

We've got an aluminium double-glazed door between the house and conversatory, which is normally kept locked because the conservatory itself isn't all that secure. There are no shoot- bolts - just a normal lock - except that it's double-locking, requiring two full turns of the key.

SWMBO went to unlock it this morning, and it wouldn't unlock. The key turns a bit, and the lock moves a bit but refuses to budge any more as if something internal is deranged.

I've fiddled with it quite a bit today, but with no joy at all. I can't see for the life of me how it's assembled. There's a stout handle each side, coming out of an aluminium 'box' - which is several inches tall and about an inch wide. A lock barrel each side also protrodes through a hole in this box. No screws are visible, to hold either the boxes or the handles in place.

So far, I've:

• squirted WD40 into the lock from both sides

• lightly tapped the lock both sides

• tried to lever the working bit of the lock sideways, whilst turning the key

• tried to turn the key whilst vibrating the door near the lock with an SDS chisel, acting via a block of wood

None of these has had the slightest effect!

Short of getting an angle grinder to it, has anyone got any useful suggestions?

TIA.

[Andrew Mawson]

turning the

Have you tried lifting, or depressing the door. It is likely that the bolt is fouling on the 'socket' due to a bit of movement of the door relative to its frame.

AWEM

[Tim S]

Roger Mills coughed up some electrons that declared:

Is it like one of these:

only experience of those eurolocks was on out PVC front door. The lock barrel only contains the pins and turning the key merely moves a protruding lever.

Thus, if you think that the lock is starting to trun, it probably means the pins are OK and the cylinder is OK. You can verify this assumption by trying the lock from both sides. If it's jamming both ways, it's not the cyclinder, but the mechanism that the cylinder is operating.

The only way I've ever got those locks out was to first have the door open and the key able to trun the cyclinder by about 10-20 degrees. Them there was one screw on the edge face of the lock that when removed allowed both barrels to slide out.

I have an ali door at Robertsbridge - I could look at that and see if the lock assembly is similar to the PVC ones tomorrow - would that help, with some photos?

I have no idea what to do if the key or mechanism is jammed. A locksmith would I'm sure, but that'll cost...

Cheers Tim

[Dave Liquorice]

That would be my thoughts as well, as the lock turns that indicates that the barrel is fin but something else is stoping the rest of the movement. Along with up and down down forget push and shove.

[meow2222]

sounds like a eurolock with a standard euro type security plate. I'm not sure how useful getting the eurolock out would be, as others have said, but if cajoling it doesnt work, I'd do that next. The security plates can usually be unscrewed from one side (hopefully the inside!). The lock itself is held with a bolt you cant get to with the door closed, so it would need to be drilled.

The fact that the key turns a bit doesnt mean the cylinder's ok, its somehat inconclusive.

NT

[Rob G]

I would go with the push, pull, lift, press approach. If it is one of the euro type locks I have one on our front door - heavy wooden with an antique brass handle mechanism - and if the handle latch is not absolutely into the faceplate such that the door is held by the lock bar only, the key lock jams and the only way to release it is to pull the door towards you.

Rob

[The Medway Handyman]

A neighbours back door showed that same symptoms. I called the local locksmiths where I buy my locks & stuff (very knowledgeable & much cheaper than the sheds) and they said the same. When you looked at the door you could see it wasn't quite 'square' in the frame.

They suggested adjusting the hinges - there was a small allen screw in the base of them. Quick twiddle & it opened no problem.

[Roger Mills]

Many thanks to all who have replied.

The door *looks* square in its frame - but I have also levered it up and down, and pushed and pulled it, just in case. When the key is turned as far as it will go - which isn't very far - I can see the bolt move by about 1mm, and it moves quite freely over that distance - no apparent binding - but then it goes solid and refuses to move any more. It's a straight rectangular bolt - not one with a hook or anything.

There's no evidence of anything adjustable on the hinges - no visible allen screws - just what appears to be the ends of the hinge pins. Having said that, when I tested the feasibility of drifting the pins out, the end I hit went down into the hinge a bit, but the other end didn't emerge from the bottom. Strange!

I rather fear that something has become de-ranged *inside* - preventing the bolt from moving more than 1mm or so. I'm still puzzled as to how the whole thing was assembled in the first place. I have several other doors with broadly similar lock mechanisms, and they *all* have screws going from the inside to the outside holding the two handle 'boxes' together but this one has *nothing* - as can be seen from this composite photo which shows the view from both sides.

Even if I can got it open by drifting the hinge pins out or cutting through the bolt with an angle grinder, I won't be able to get the lock out unless I can remove the handles and the bar which goes bewteen them.

Any further suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

[Stuart Noble]

You really need two people, one to do the push/pull, and the other to turn the key

[Roger Mills]

I have! My wife was participating in the exercise for at least some of the time.

[The Medway Handyman]

One of those cover plates either slides or can be prised off, try picking out the black caps. One must come off or the door couldn't have been made.

[Thomas Prufer]

Try sticking something pointy in the gap between the door and the frame so that the point digs into the bolt, i.e. a knife point, and moving the bolt back as you turn the key. Maybe moving the bolt and turning the key at the same time will get it open?

Not much hope, but easy enough to try...

HTH,

Thomas Prufer

[Thomas Prufer]

Could also be held on with just the door handles -- any setscrew in the handle? Usually and properly on the inside one...

Thomas Prufer

[Roger Mills]

Thanks for the suggestion - but I've already tried tried that, I'm afraid. I managed to make a little cut in the bolt with a padsaw, and then got the end of a screwdriver into the cut and tried to level the bolt whilst turning the key. No joy, unfortunately.

[Roger Mills]

No, there are no grub screws etc. in either handle like some door handles have.

[Roger Mills]

I have tried to remove one of the black caps - but it doesn't seem to want to come out non-destructively.

I'm wondering whether the covers could be held on by screws going into the back of them - inserted from inside the frame section before the sealed unit was put in. Is this feasible?

[The Medway Handyman]

Can't imagine they would go to that much trouble. My money is on the cover plate inside.

[Roger Mills]

When I try to remove the black caps, they move a few mm, and it is then possible to see that they extend a long way behind the cover - and they are presumably retained by something way down inside. If I lever *both* caps so that there is a gap at both the top and the bottom, the cover plate - together with handle and lock barrel - can then be slid up and down within that gap.

This suggests that the covers are retained by the caps - which are themselves retained by some nefarious means behind the covers - maybe screws from inside the frame section?

However, this is all a bit academic! I first have to get the door open somehow before being in a position to attack the lock.

Just a bit more on bolt movement . . . .

When the key is inserted and turned in the 'unlock' direction, it turns for almost half a turn with no resistance before reaching the position where it moves the bolt slightly. If turned in the 'lock' direction, it again turns for almost half a turn with no resistance, and then tries to move the bolt further into the frame - except that the bolt then tends to rock rather than slide.

Any further ideas anyone?

[Richard Savage]

I have exactly the same lock on my back doors. The handle assemblies on both are a bit slack. There is not as far as I have been able to see any means of removing anything apart from the Euro lock barrel from this assembly.

Sorry :-(

Richard

[Richard Savage]

Further thought (duplicated in email to your address Roger):

As I have the same locks in two doors which, currently, open and close I'd be happy to investigate dismantling techniques under the direction of anyone who thinks they know how to get them apart if that might help.

Richard