All your fears about Smart meters confirmed

[Chris Green]

Overall maybe yes, but if you have a good mix of devices it will probably mask any useful information.

[michael adams]

snip

~ The first thing that happens when I interact with most companies (other than ~ simply paying for goods at a till) is they go for a data grab, and it normally ~ includes data irrelevant to the business being done. It has nothing to do with ~ interesting lives or crazy people imagining they're the centre of attention, it ~ has simply become a business norm these days. Data has commercial ~ value and companies are routinely overestimating the value of it & grabbing ~ whatever they can.

I'm not sure what point you're making here. Every time you make a payment with a credit or debit card you're providing further information to the card company in addition to the masses of data they already hold on you. The profile such data could generate is far more informative than anything that could be gleaned from the smart meter data which seems to be causing such concern. So unless all the tin foil hat brigade also forgo the use of credit cards I fail to see their point.

Which isn't to say that advertising targeted at broad groups, say certain age groups rather than at individuals as such, wouldn't be more effective. But that's another issue.

Which isn't to say that the "internet of things" is necessarily a good thing. Basically ceding control of any aspect of your life to potential incompetents and/or the purveyors of bullshit unless absolutely necessary is a very bad idea IMO

michael adams

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[whisky-dave]

I doubt that would be very relible as an indication of no one being home. As I doubt most would swtich off fridge/freezers if they were just away for 3 days. In winter some might leave things on low level, and if they had their lights come on for security. And even if yuo did get the info I would most likely be to late unless yuo could travel back in time to the dates when little electricity was used and break in or be able to predict when peokle might not be home like the weekend.

So I wouldn't be too worried by smartmeters from this POV.

It's probbaly easisr for a burglar to check whether yuor car is about or wherehr the junk mail has been recycled is more of a worry.

[Harry Bloomfield]

michael adams brought next idea :

Or an individual chasing a backer. More sensible would be an 'I'm alive' button to push once per day, or a text message to be replied to daily and much more reliable. Why look for a more complex solution which simply would not be nearly so reliable as an indicator?

[michael adams]

Were that the sole reason for supplying a smart meter in a particular location, then that might very well be true.

However one of the few undoubted benefits of smart meters to vulnerable customers at least, is that they could also provide an assured supply in the event of planned power cuts or rationing, should this ever prove necessary.

michael adams

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[Harry Bloomfield]

michael adams brought next idea :

A good point indeed. Much less granular that denying supplies to whole areas during shortages.

[2987fr]

Can also just be due to the appliance dying and slow to replace etc.

Can be worse too tho. I know all my neighbours very well and they do try to do that but it doesn't always work very well.

I now use my mobile for all inwards and outwards calls and only get spam on the landline. When they are in some doubt about whether I am ok, they normally do ring me when they can't see me inside the house after they show up a couple of times. But since I only get spam calls on the landline anymore, and don't pay for Caller ID on that anymore, if the landline rings when I am cooking dinner etc I usually don't bother to answer it when its not convenient. Did that a while ago and when it rang again after dinner, assumed it was just the same spammer calling again. Turned out that it was actually my neighbours son who no longer lives in this town who had been told by his dad that he hadn't seen me when he came to the door a couple of times. So he rang to check if I was ok but only had the landline in his contacts. I go to bed quite early and when that neighbour checked with the neighbour on the other side if he had seen me after I didn't answer both calls, they started banging on the door to see if I was ok.

A proper automated system using the movement detectors I already have for the lights would be much more reliable.

Neither work for me, never had milk delivery and get so little snail mail now that even the posty wouldn't twig for months.

That wouldn't work for me either. I only put it out every few months because I generate so little waste.

[2987fr]

Movement sensors would be a much better approach.

[2987fr]

Not just a challenge. We could never get my dad to wear one. He seemed to see it as an admission that he was past it.

He did get a mobile phone himself so he could call someone if he managed to have a fall when out walking in the retirement village for exercise, but refused to wear an emergency call button. Just left it on the table in easy reach.

And an uncuttable one that has it permanently on your wrist or around your neck is a bit over the top.

[2987fr]

Because I would prefer a quicker response if I manage to fall and can't get up due to a broken hip etc or a diabetic coma.

Yes, movement sensors make a lot more sense, particularly if you have those already for the lights.

[tabbypurr]

Quicker responding systems cost money & very few are willing to spend on that. Using existing equipment at no added cost could be widely deployed. Not everyone will consent though.

NT

[Harry Bloomfield]

2987fr has brought this to us :

I agree, but even they are not infallible. There could be periods of up to 8 hours or more, when you might be in bed. Equally, you could be lying injured or dying for 8 hours - motion sensors cannot tell the difference between the two states and it would be entirely wrong to rely on a 'usual pattern of movement' for either metering or motion sensors.

[2987fr]

The ones used for lights respond quicker than most.

Bullshit.

There will always be an additional costs to poll smart meters often enough to decide if someone is no longer using electricity at the rate they normally do.

In spades with sending someone around to see if they have a medical problem or have just changed the way they do things because say an appliance has broken or they have chosen to go out for the day etc.

[2987fr]

We don't need infallible, just a lot better than smartmeters.

There could be periods of up

Mine work fine with me in bed detecting that I am in bed.

Equally, you could be

Yes, but the smart meter can't work that out when you are in bed.

But can do a lot better than a smart meter when you can't get out of bed.

and it would be entirely wrong to

Still a lot better than not monitoring at all and waiting for the neighbours to complain about the smell from the corpse.

[Harry Bloomfield]

2987fr submitted this idea :

OK, fine - I didn't realise you had them/one watching your bed. It would be a fair assumption that if it detected you in bed and still moving occaisionaly - that you are fine and that if you needed help you could make a phone call.

I have only installed one movement sensor and that to switch the light on in the utility room / pantry. The reason - we usually go in and out of there with both hands full, so it makes life easier if the light comes on and switches off automatically when someone goes in or comes out.

[Chris]

It's the thin end of the wedge. Facebook were like that at the beginning: just a little targeted advertising. Now they can purportedly manipulate elections.

At least you can choose not to have FB. Everyone has electricity meters and we're being encouraged to get "smart" ones. Imagine getting access to that data...

[whisky-dave]

Accelerometers & gyroscopes would be used as it's more than just movement to detect a fall, they use an algorithm in order to work out what the data represents.

[spuorgelgoog]

There was a full page ad in Metro today featuring this by the Smart Meter Campaign calling it "Good News".

Owain

[2987fr]

Problem is getting the person to wear that all the time. Even in the bath or shower, because that is in fact where they are much more likely to fall.

I wasn?t taking about using movement to detect a fall, using movement to detect that they havent had a fall.

[whisky-dave]

You;d have to leave that up to them or in some cases perhaps use a tag.

I think it would be more difficult to get them to install cameras and PIR system in their bathroom than getting them to wear a braclet or a watch. And you'd need them to in stall those device's in everyroom including the garden and any sheds or workshops, I think that is more difficult than aking them to wear something.

and how would that work then ? They moved down the stairs or moved into the bathroom or moved into the shed. Doesn't tell you much.