Aldi compressor ...

[Tim Streater]

Quite. And a cheque has a number so you can track things. If you give out the bank details you'll also need to give the person a reference code and hope they remember to use that with the transfer, so you can track it.

Also: what are the security issues with giving out such bank details? I know e.g. the Revenue does it, but do they have a way to prevent transfer out of that account except by some special arrangement? If I was TMH, I'd be wanting to have another account for the purpose, locked down so that the only way to transfer dosh from it was to some other nominated account. But I'd bet that sort of arrangement would also cost.

[Dave Liquorice]

2% if the retailer has the required volume of transactions. Low volume retailers pay around 4%.

So a debit card is more expensive to a high volume retailer for transactions less than =A310.

[Andy Burns]

The "secret" details are just your sort code and account number (i.e. the same as those on every cheque you write anyway.

All our invoices include bank details and most customers pay by BACS now, what makes you think that simply by knowing the sort code and account number they can withdraw as well as pay in to that account?

[Owain]

Rental fee shouldn't be more than about =A310 a month which often includes your processing fees (i.e. it's minimum fee of =A310 a month) often using a virtual terminal on the mobile phone - try Federation of Small Businesses, Adelante or 123send.

You are also now allowed to pass on processing charges to your customers, so you can add a % for credit card compared to debit card.

Once you take into account the time it takes to go to the bank and to reconcile cheques vs invoices, it might be worthwhile.

Owain

[Dave Liquorice]

They don't need a website to accept money from internet banking they just need to give their bank details (sort code and account number) together with a unique reference to their customers to use when

*they* pay by internet banking.

But as you say it's going to be more work for the treasure to reconcile payments with members. Hopefully most will be fairly straight forward but when the customer doesn't enter or puts in a wrong reference it'll get messy. Is that any different to just getting a cheque and nothing else in the post though?

That will happen I'm sure.

[Dave Liquorice]

Niether would Paypal or any other online system. Mrs Miggins probably won't have telephone banking set up either.

I don't think even those that are taking cheques out of the system have any suitable replacement ideas either.

There have been a few dabbles with "electronic cash" but none seem to have taken off or even gone much beyound trials. I think that might be down to the powers that be seeing that there could be audit trail but the systems are supposed to be like cash where there isn't an audit trail, so "they" don't like them...

[Dave Liquorice]

None. Have you worried about even more details and your signature being on any cheque you have ever written?

There is some FUD that orginates from the US where you could get money out of an account by knowing only the numbers. That isn't possible with the UK banking system.

[Tim Streater]

True, true.

I was more thinking that having that info would be a good starting point for bad guys but as you point out, a cheque is even better.

[Andy Champ]

Well, _I_ don't do internet banking. I don't think I can make my PC perfectly secure. And I'm pretty sure you can't make yours perfectly secure either.

With the cheque you have a renewal form and a bit of paper with the account holder's name printed on it.

Andy

[Tim Streater]

Righto.

Did we have a Giro system here for a while? Not sure how that worked here, but in Switzerland the utilities sent you a green slip that you took to the Post Office. The slip had the payee details and the amount already printed. You paid the dosh and the PO stamped it and tore off the counterfoil, which was your receipt. So in effect a bit like BACS but done manually by the PO. The PO even had blank ones so you could fill in the payee's Giro number and the amount. Made paying bills quite easy and anyone could get a Giro acct.

[Tony Bryer]

Yes. But for larger businesses banks charge a percentage for cash deposited so if you take a cashback you're doing them a favour and the net o/a charge to them might be negative!

[Dave Liquorice]

In the case of the scaffolder it would have taken several trips to the cash machine (only a couple of miles) as the bill was >=A32,000. I wouldn't have been happy with that amount of cash lying about and he is based in Penrith, 20+ miles away.

*I* could do an electronic transfer but not everybody has, or wants, that abilty or telephone banking.

[Dave Liquorice]

But paying money into an account not taking it out...

There was Girobank in the UK, went defunct in 2003 (wikipedia).

[Dave Liquorice]

number)

It is for people like you who don't want or can't have internet banking that I'm bringing the quite serious potential problem to the fore.

My PC is probably safer than most, at least as far as malware is concerned. I don't let the machine remember my banking login details and they require the use of another bit hardware to gain access as well.

Read what I wrote "just getting a cheque". Yes, the slip from a renewal form *should* also be included but the number of people who just stick a cheque and nothing else in the envelope into the post is quite high. *If* the name on the cheque tallies, uniquely, with the membership database all well and good but what if there are two or more names that match?

[The Medway Handyman]

As always you live in a world of your own.

For a small trader it costs 3.4& plus 20p for a debit card.

[The Medway Handyman]

The reason all large retailers offer cash back is twofold. I have to pay

89p per £100 to deposit cash, they will pay considerably less - but still have to pay something. Plus they have to pay to have the cash collected by Securicor or whoever, whereas plastic transactions are much cheaper.

[The Medway Handyman]

I'm an FSB member and the cheapest rental deal is £35 a month, + a setup fee, + a percentage of the transaction. My bank, no surprise, want a lot more than that + a hefty set up fee.

A mobile terminal prices itself out of the equation for relatively small monthly transactions.

Allowed to, but can you & remain competitive?

That is a good point.

[The Medway Handyman]

Pay Pal 7 others have a 'virtual terminal' deal where I could ring Mrs Miggins & take her card details over the phone, so that would work, but cost me more than a cheque.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

My car club uses Paypal.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Well, Mrs Miggins will have to sort out a way of paying herself - given she won't have cheques either.

How about Paypal? Even my brother has started using that and he's about as new things phobic as possible.