Aldi 800w generator - latest views

[David WE Roberts]

Aldi have an 800w (peak) 650w standard generator up for £59.99 this Sunday.

I've Googled back and got mixed responses.

Caravan discussion sites seem anti, but in 2009 this NG was cautiously in favour.

I am considering this as an emergency power supply to the motorhome when wild camping. However I wouldn't want to incinerate an expensive Electroblok by using a £60 generator with dodgy output.

So:

(1) Is the output smooth enough to feed into a 240V input for a caravan or motorhome? (2) If not, is there something reasonably priced to put between the generator and the socket?

Honda is the quality answer but kicks off at around £1,000. I note the references to farm sales but I suspect that farmers use the robust generators in a pipe frame not the suitcase generators which are easier to stow inside a camper or caravan.

Kipor is a cheap(ish) alternative but still at around £300 for a 1Kw peak

900w standard genny it is around 5 times the cost of this.

Hmmm.......any way of linking the output of 3 of these together? That would give 2.4kw (peak) 1.95kw (standard) of generating power for just under £180 which does compare favourably with £400 for a 2Kw generator from Kipor.

All I really need is something to recharge the batteries without having to run the engine. So with 2 * 100 amp hour batteries to charge from 50% to 100% I would need

100 amps for an hour - well, lets say 50 amps for 2 hours. Amps = watts/volts so 300 watts at 12 volts should give 25 amps charge current - 4 hours running. 600 watts at 12 volts should give 50 amps charge current (if the system would take it) - 2 hours running.

All in all, a 600w generator run for a couple of hours in the morning should be a reasonable alternative to a solar panel on the roof, given that 100w of solar panel can cost £300 without the controller or fixing kit.

So , what does the team think?

Cheers

Dave R

P.S. there must be a reasonably simple way of combining different 240V inputs or the whole concept of solar feed in just wouldn't work.

[NT]

On Jul 7, 8:44=A0pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote: snip snip

If your chagrer is electronic swtched mode, just full wave rectify the output from each gen, then conncet all 3 together. Check the genny chassis is NOT connected to either L or N before doing this - it probabyl wont be.

Another option I looked at for much teh same task was to build a big nonrechargeable battery.

NT

[David WE Roberts]

If your chagrer is electronic swtched mode, just full wave rectify the output from each gen, then conncet all 3 together. Check the genny chassis is NOT connected to either L or N before doing this - it probabyl wont be.

Another option I looked at for much teh same task was to build a big nonrechargeable battery.

*************************

Somewhat confused here. I have a complex in-motorhome system which expects a good quality 240V AC input via a blue round 3 pin plug set into the outside wall.

AIUI a rectifier converts AC input to DC output which is not going to fit well with something expecting 240V AC.

Unless you expect me to run 3 AC inputs through full wave rectifiers then feed the resultant 12V DC current into an inverter to get it back to 240V AC?

I am specifically not intending to connect a 12V charging current directly to the battery. I am intending to feed in 240V AC which will aslo allow me to use the 13 amp sockets inside the motorhome if I so desire.

Cheers

Dave R

[Fredxx]

Wouldn't it be cheaper and less hassle "just" to get a bigger genny?

Why? If cost is an issue, how can that be cost effective?

[Steve Firth]

"David WE Roberts" wrote: [snip]

The Kipor generator is worth the extra. It's not as quiet as the Honda, but it is a digital inverter generator providing stable output and the Kipors are four stroke. The Aldi works, but it's not suitable for sensitive equipment.

If you want a good generator for a caravan or Motorhome the choice is simple between Kipor, Honda or possibly the electric start (with remote) generators that crop up on eBay from time to time.

Like this:

open frame generators will deafen you and anyone else within about 100 yards.

[Dave Liquorice]

Do you have anything "sensitive" in the motorhome. Motors, lights, heaters etc are not "sensitive". Electonics, TV etc, might be.

They are probably invertor generators and will produce a decent waveform. The "little stinky" Aldi two stroke will just be an alternator and engine, the waveform may get distorted near capacity. Little stinky will be that as well smelly by being a two stroke and compared to the Honda/Kipor invertor range rather noisey.

Not easyly. You can't simply wire them in parallel as I doubt the load sharing woud be equal and the moment that you join two non-synchrous sets together might be interesting as well. You can get link kits for the Honda invertors.

The 12v out from most of these small set is normally only about 10A, so you'd be looking at using the 240v out and a beefy battery charger, which will add losses, say 25% overall.

Yes but they don't come particularly cheap and the feed in isn't quite the same as what you are wanting.

[NT]

ote:

I thought you said you just wanted to recharge your batteries. To get a 240v ac feed from 3 asynchronous ac feeds is nontrivial, forget it basically.

ps rectified 240v ac is 330v dc, not 12v.

NT

[David WE Roberts]

*************** I thought you said you just wanted to recharge your batteries. To get a 240v ac feed from 3 asynchronous ac feeds is nontrivial, forget it basically.

ps rectified 240v ac is 330v dc, not 12v.

******************

Checked back, and the bit about feeding a 240V socket was in the bit you snipped from the top.

Off this particular topic, but how do they manage the feed in to the grid from PV arrays? Is this why the inverters are so damn expensive?

[David WE Roberts]

Do you have anything "sensitive" in the motorhome. Motors, lights, heaters etc are not "sensitive". Electonics, TV etc, might be.

They are probably invertor generators and will produce a decent waveform. The "little stinky" Aldi two stroke will just be an alternator and engine, the waveform may get distorted near capacity. Little stinky will be that as well smelly by being a two stroke and compared to the Honda/Kipor invertor range rather noisey.

Not easyly. You can't simply wire them in parallel as I doubt the load sharing woud be equal and the moment that you join two non-synchrous sets together might be interesting as well. You can get link kits for the Honda invertors.

The 12v out from most of these small set is normally only about 10A, so you'd be looking at using the 240v out and a beefy battery charger, which will add losses, say 25% overall.

Yes but they don't come particularly cheap and the feed in isn't quite the same as what you are wanting.

*************************************************************************

Thanks - looks as though I added too much information. Most people have more or less focussed on the 12v charging when the important bit was at the top - a clean feed into a 240V socket.

Yes, there are sensitive bits of kit including the Electroblok which is some kind of fancy charge controller for the batteries and distribution system so the input should really be, I guess, from a good quality smoothed and regulated source.

Bypassing the charge controller is possible, of course, but if I am going to get a generator it should be able to power the 240V sockets as well even though the number one aim is to be able to top up the battery.

So - noisy, smelly, unregulated output. Thought it was too cheap to be suitable but thought I'd check just in case. I was impressed by an old 600W Honda (no longer made AFAICT) used by another motor homer in France.

Thanks to all who have responded.

Cheers

Dave R

[NT]

The invertor which creates 240v ac synchronises its output to the existing mains. Portable generators cant do this, non-electronic ones because they cant maintain full speed under all conditions, and electronic ones just lack the circuitry.

NT

[NT]

A big battery costs peanuts compared to a generator. There's a wide variety of chemistries available, IIRC the one that tempted me was aluminium electrodes in what was it, soda? I dont remember the electrolyte now.

NT

[Paul - xxx]

We have a Honda 600w gennie that's pretty damn good, giving exactly what it says on the tin, and pretty clean, we've run laptops directly from it when timing races etc ..

We tried one of these a year or so ago and it was reasonable when not under too much load! When equipment was being used it laboured and 'hunting' speed changes made it appear even louder than it actually was. We didn't dare attach the laptops to it 'cos of the speed changes, so probably can't really comment on how 'clean' the output was other than to say it didn't inspire confidence at all.

I think it's not the sort of gennie for anyone in a caravan/motorhome/camping who has a need to run potentially voltage sensitive equipment from it, or for anyone who cares about neighbours and their very local, personal, environment .. the two-stroke is a bit loud and definitely smelly. (personally I love 2t smells and sounds, 'specially racing 2t's, but this is the worst kind of 2t, like an angry waso!)

[Dave Liquorice]

Check with the maker, though they may cover their arse and say it has to be connected to mains. Mind you some mains supplies can be pretty ropey...

The big problem with these little gensets is regulation when the load changes. They don't have enough grunt to maintain volts when the load goes up and tend to overshoot when it drops. Under constant load conditions they aren't too bad.

Noisy compared to the Honda invertors which are *very* quiet... Not noisy when compared to an open frame petrol set and positively inaudible compared to an open frame diesel. B-)

Being a two stroke you do have the faff of mixing the fuel and oil. Wonders if you can get scented two stroke oil, fresh mown grass?

Probably not a lot different TBH.

[Paul - xxx]

Heh, I should have read through to here before my reply to the original post .. ;)

[Fredxx]

Aluminium is £2.50 per kg at world prices, in practice you'll be paying double this.

A Aluminium KOH batter gets 1300WH per kg. Hand waving guess.

So £2 per kWH

We also have to factor in that Al batteries degrade irrespective of whether a current is drawn or not.

You can get a 850W genny from Machine Mart for just £100, ie just 40kg of aluminium at world prices.

I don't feel quite as "tempted" as you!!

[Fredxx]

Portable generators can be made to synchronise, in much the same way the national grid has a sets of generators all synced to each other. Even single phase.

If you have identical generators where you can vary the speed (I use to possess one) there is no reason why it isn't possible to match speed and phase. Once locked they ought to perform as if one larger one.

[AlanD]

On 07/

I have used several Kipor generators, and have checked the output waveform on an oscilloscope under load, and can confirm that it is a true sinewave, and remains in good shape until nearly full load (3kw model checked). Even then the distortion is minimal.

I have ran many laptops, printers, chargers etc from them without issues.

[Steve Firth]

We use one of the big diesel models. It's quiet, rugged and works flawlessly with a huge range of equipment including running a commercial microwave.

[Steve Firth]

On a £60 generator? I suspect you need to get a grip on reality. My Kipor

5kVA generator will do all you describe and is the cheapest gender that I know of that is so equipped. It will still cost around £850. If you want 10kVA it's cheaper and more economical to buy the 11kVA unit rather than trying to bootstrap 2x5kVA units.

[NT]

Yes, people have done this, but its far from issue free, to someone that knows little about gennies its not an approach I'd suggest.

NT