Jungle Feed

Sorry it is called Jungle Green Keith

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Dilute it about 12:1 or 13:1

Rounding to the nearest whole number, that's 1-0-1

Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC -

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Rounding to the nearest whole number, that's 1-0-1=20

Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC -

Keith,

Yes, "Akerne's RAIN MIX" is the MSU fertiliser for rainwater etc. Our TAP MIX version is not there yet as we have trouble getting all the ingredients, let us just say that one of the ingredients needed can be used for other purposes.... making it very hard to near impossible to get hold of.

Have a chat with my father at the BOGA fayre end of the month concerning your concentration. We go up to 550ppm for ALL our orchids (no exception) and this includes, amongst others, anything from Disa, Cyrpipedium, Paphiopedilum, Masdevallia over to Cattleya and Cymbidium.

kind regards,

Kenneth Bruyninckx Akerne Orchids, Belgium

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Thanks for jumping in, Kenneth.

Even GreenCare - the folks that make the original "MSU" fertilizers - have to resort to more-expensive raw materials for the tap water formula.

The whole "dissolved solids" level discussion is hard to deal with, which is why EC or going with the nitrogen loading is more manageable.

For example, using the MSU RO formula, for 125 ppm N, adding up the weight percentages of all of the cations present gives a dissolved solids level of about 355 ppm. However, as one must add 3.55 grams of the powder to a gallon of water for 125 ppm N, that is an addition of

Now I'm quite sure that all of the constituents of the mineral molecules don't contribute to the dissolved solids content - some of those are water, after all - so that suggests that the TRUE dissolved solids content is lower than that last calculation would imply, but how do you determine that?

TDS meters really are of little value, as they are just cheap EC meters with a built-in conversion factor to ppm. Unfortunately, the factor should change with the make-up of the ionic species dissolved, so it technically cannot be a single factor for all fertilizers and solutions. Let's also not forget that different manufacturers use different conversion factors! I have two - at a 125 ppm N solution, one tells me the TDS is about 480 ppm, the other 610. About all TDS meters are good for is assessing whether the solution you made up this time is different from the last time.

Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC -

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Even GreenCare - the folks that make the original "MSU" fertilizers - = have to resort to more-expensive raw materials for the tap water = formula.

The whole "dissolved solids" level discussion is hard to deal with, = which is why EC or going with the nitrogen loading is more manageable.

For example, using the MSU RO formula, for 125 ppm N, adding up the = weight percentages of all of the cations present gives a dissolved = solids level of about 355 ppm. However, as one must add 3.55 grams of = the powder to a gallon of water for 125 ppm N, that is an addition of =

Now I'm quite sure that all of the constituents of the mineral = molecules don't contribute to the dissolved solids content - some of = those are water, after all - so that suggests that the TRUE dissolved = solids content is lower than that last calculation would imply, but how = do you determine that?

TDS meters really are of little value, as they are just cheap EC = meters with a built-in conversion factor to ppm. Unfortunately, the = factor should change with the make-up of the ionic species dissolved, so = it technically cannot be a single factor for all fertilizers and = solutions. Let's also not forget that different manufacturers use = different conversion factors! I have two - at a 125 ppm N solution, one = tells me the TDS is about 480 ppm, the other 610. About all TDS meters = are good for is assessing whether the solution you made up this time is = different from the last time.

Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC -

Small, but very important correction.

I meant to say that we add fertilizer to reach conductivity of 550 µS, not 550ppm....

Kenneth.

I meant to say that we add fertilizer to reach conductivity of 550 µS, not 550ppm....

Kenneth.

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Keith,

Unless you're growing stuff like Den. nobile, that needs a "winter rest"

- i.e., no nitrogen whatsoever - I find it advantageous to feed year round.

In fact, all of my plants get 125 ppm N (about twice the concentration Kenneth uses) at every watering.

Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC -

inputted 13-3-15 at 0.75 teaspoon a gallon came out at

Unless you're growing stuff like Den. nobile, that needs a "winter rest" - i.e., no nitrogen whatsoever - I find it advantageous to feed year round.

In fact, all of my plants get 125 ppm N (about twice the concentration Kenneth uses) at every watering.

Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC -

Hi Ray ,i have just used your online ppm calculator and inputted 13-3-15 at 0.75 teaspoon a gallon came out at

- i.e., no nitrogen whatsoever - I find it advantageous to feed year round. In fact, all of my plants get 125 ppm N (about twice the concentration Kenneth uses) at every watering. Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC -

Hi Ray ,i have just used your online ppm calculator and inputted 13-3-15 at 0.75 teaspoon a gallon came out at

- i.e., no nitrogen whatsoever - I find it advantageous to feed year round. In fact, all of my plants get 125 ppm N (about twice the concentration Kenneth uses) at every watering. Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC -

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Re: Jungle FeedI have redone this @ 0.75 /gallon=20 result is 422ppm/660 m/sm RO 6ppm

=20

A US gallon is 3.785 liters=20

A US teaspoon is 4.93 milliliters

=20

An Imperial gallon is 4.546 liters

An Imperial teaspoon is 5.92 milliliters

=20

=20

=20

The ratio being identical means that 10 divided by the %N gives you = the teaspoons per gallon to use for 125 ppm N, whether US or Imperial = units.

=20

As you put one Imperial teaspoon in an Imperial gallon, you used =

=20

Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC -

Orchid Plants, Supplies, Equipment, Books

Artwork, Free Services & Lots of Info!

=20

From: keith kent [mailto: snipped-for-privacy@ntlworld.com]=20 Posted At: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:32 PM Posted To: rec.gardens.orchids Conversation: Jungle Feed Subject: Re: Jungle Feed

=20

Ray is it as simple as converting 0.75 us teaspoon to uk teaspoon = which is 1.0408427308 ( which is as good as 1 teaspoon yeh ?) then add = this to a uk Gallon which is 4.5 UK litres=20

What do you think ?,if i can get this right from the start then it = will be easy from here .Phew !

Keith

Hi RAY ,i am using a online conversion would you convert US = gallon dry as the feed is powder form ?

Thanks Keith

You are correct that you would add 1ml of a 13%N fertilizer to = one liter (litre) of water. I'll leave the conversion to imperial = gallons to you.

=20

Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC -

Orchid Plants, Supplies, Equipment, Books

Artwork, Free Services & Lots of Info!

=20

From: keith kent [mailto: snipped-for-privacy@ntlworld.com]=20 Posted At: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:24 PM Posted To: rec.gardens.orchids Conversation: Jungle Feed Subject: Re: Jungle Feed

=20

Hi Ray , for ml/L msu is 13 % N divide x 13 is obviously 1 ml ? = is this per litre so it is 4.5 ml per gallon water? it surely cannot be =

Cheers Keith =20

What I have learned is that most professional growers (not = just orchids), control their feeding by managing the ppm N in the = solution, and letting the rest of the nutrients "tag along" in the = ratios of the preferred formula.

=20

I shoot for 125 ppm N in my fertilizer solution at all times. = It's easy to determine the amount to use - just divide 10 by the %N on = the label, and the result is teaspoons to add per gallon. For you = sophisticated, metricated folks, divide 13 by the %N to get the ml/L.

=20

Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC -

Orchid Plants, Supplies, Equipment, Books

Artwork, Free Services & Lots of Info!

=20

From: keith kent [mailto: snipped-for-privacy@ntlworld.com]=20 Posted At: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:11 PM Posted To: rec.gardens.orchids Conversation: Jungle Feed Subject: Re: Jungle Feed

=20

Thanks for that Ray , i did see the orchidboard post after = doing a search.

I am going to buy the Akerne orchids feed which is basically = the MSU i think

As the feed is 13 -3- 15 does this mean that less feed will be = required compared to the 1-0-1 .

If so this is just what i am looking for ,as i mix up at =

Regards Keith =20

Dilute it about 12:1 or 13:1=20

Rounding to the nearest whole number, that's 1-0-1=20

Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC -

=20

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Any chance ya'll could turn off the posting with a text version and an HTML version and trim the quotes occasionally? While this thread has been amusing me greatly, 1588 line posts which are mostly HTML from earlier in the thread is getting a tad insane.

And as keith has finally gone metric like a good european...

PPM Nitrogen = 1000000* ((%N/100)*((fertilizer in ml)/1000)/(container size in liters)

Cancel some zeroes PPM Nitrogen = 10 * (%N * (fertilizer in ml))/(container size in liters)

And plug in the numbers for 125PPM nitrogen... 13%N in the fertilizer...

125/130 ml/l and for sanity's sake we just round to 1ml/l.

And if Keith wants to play with the amounts for other PPMs.

PPM component*container size in l/(10*%component)= ml of fert

And if Keith absolutely must find out the TDS... the UK should have an equivalent to an agriculture extension agency which should, for a fee, be willing to do a full sample anlysis for him.

Color me a grouch, but these calculations are a no-brainer in metric. And if you need to end up using screwball non-metric units, do the unit conversion from the metric answer to the screwball units.

And Keith... there's this wonderful Unix program called 'units'. Here's a useful conversion for you...

You have: ml/l You want: brteaspoon/brgallon * 0.909218 / 1.0998462

And another useful conversion...

You have: usteaspoon/usgallon You want: brteaspoon/brgallon * 1.1838776 / 0.84468191

And now I'm off to ponder asking for a half stack of mulch...