# Wiring a 480V Single Phase Circuit

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:00:29 -0400, "Pop Rivet"

/me hands the man a star

..and has been for years elsewhere. In Aussie we have been manufacturing and installing 415 Ψ fan motors for the refrigeration industry for years ! It is also common practice (or was) to connect Refrigeration systems with a 415 Ψ control circuit..giving the added no cost protection of a simple phase failure unit...but I wabbit on..sorry. Thanks for your heads up :-)
BTZ
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replying to Pop Rivet, rricha04 wrote: How about a plasma cutter like Hypertherm Powermax 85 Input voltages:     CSA    200 β 480 V, 1-PH, 50/60 Hz 200 β 600 V, 3-PH, 50/60 Hz CE    380/400 V, 3-PH, 50/60 Hz Input Current @12.2 kW    CSA    200/208/240/480 V, 1-PH, 70/68/58/29 A 200/208/240/480/600 V, 3-PH, 42/40/35/18/17 A CE    380/400 V, 3-PH, 20.5/19.5 A https://www.hypertherm.com/en-US/hypertherm/powermax/powermax85 /
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a
volt
are
Horse shit.
Makes absolutely no differance how it is derived--could be from a single phase generator, or battery backup with an inverter and still be single phase.
You need to toss the three phase reference out the door because it is of absolutely no value in defining single phase power.....
You have the cart in front of the horse--three phase being three single phase circuits that are 120 degrees out of phase from each other, connected together in a star or a triangle configuration.
And by the way, anyone who knows diddly squat about power distribution is likely not very impressed at your obvious attempts at further clouding the issue by your rattling off various types of three phase service, bringing in line to line and center tap voltages, control transformers, streetlight wiring and all the rest of the irrevelant crap.
Have a nice day.
--

SVL

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Get a clue, dummy. In order to get 277/480v from the power co. it's gonna be 3 phase. Obviously you have NO conception of how single phase power is derived from 3 phase power.

What do you think a WYE connection is?

I should have known that a moron like you couldn't understand basic electric disribution.

Looks like you're another one of those alt.H(ack)VAC wannbe electrician's........as you are making an ass of yourself over knowledge common to the electrical industry. There is no doubt that you have never done electrical work for a living to make the statements that you have made. Go back to doing machine work and leave the wiring to the sparkies before you kill yourself or someone else.
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"
the
system
be 3

derived
.........DAMN........I'M IMPRESSED.........
Fuck off, you imbecile--and just see how far you get by calling people names.
The OP never mentioned 277 volts....YOU DID THIS, ostensibly as an excuse to call someone a "dummy".....But if I want 277v though, I certainly dont have to derive it from a polyphase system.....
Again, voltage has nothing to do with it. Single phase is nothing more than a single a/c circuit, you scope it and it alternates between a high and a low voltage.
You only have a single phase.....this is as opposed to a polyphase system....
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=single-phase&rg
The voltage can be changed easy enough with transformers--run it here....run it there....isolate it....center tap it, its split phase---but STILL, SINGLE PHASE......makes no differance how it was derived.......use an old telephone crank for all I care......
FWIW, I actually have some motors that run on FOUR and some that even run on FIVE PHASES--commutation is via PWM technology.....

connected
Could be one of the examples above--why dontcha just go ahead and take a wild guess ???

the
in
electric
You havent a clue as to what I might or might not understand, and your doing yourself no favors by continuing with the name calling here.

common
back
....LOL.....
I was wiring residential and building shortwave radio from scratch at the age of ten years old.......
....AND.....
As to your "alt.H(ack)VAC wannbe" statement--you are really starting to sound a LOT like some of them guys there with this "leave the wiring to the sparkies before you kill yourself or someone else" attitude, no?
...ALSO....
Where *I* live, you dont need a license to do electrical work, it just has to pass inspection--you just can't charge for it with no license.....
I've wired up many, many new services--and I never once been gigged by the inspectors.......
The last one I did was for myself, a 400amp ct single phase setup with a pair of 200 amp panels, each panel also feeding a 100 amp to a 50 hp rotary transformer to generate three phase for the machine shop, this "generated" power being fed into a pair of three phase panels, branch circuits then feeding the machinery.
The rotary units I engineered and wired myself, inside of a pair of hoffman 24x36 cabinets--they're protected with overload contactors and they start at the push of a button, a 220/120v transformer providing control voltage.....if mains power is interrupted for even a split second the entire system drops out in order to prevent possible utility line spikes from damaging the connected load.
You can fool some of the people some of the time.....
"The term "single phase" is a counterpoint to another kind of power system called "polyphase" which we are about to investigate in detail."
"Single phase power systems are defined by having an AC source with only one voltage waveform."
Doh!!!
--

SVL

begin 666 ibreve.gif
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(Thomas) wrote:

Looks like YOU are the one who needs to fuck off.
......snip.....

and you can get a job as a commercial/industrial electrician sometime and find out real fast that 480 volts single-phase derived from a 3 phase 480v system is any two phases line-to-line.

How many times do you have to be told? When two phases of a 3 phase system are combined, THE RESULT IS A SINGLE VOLTAGE WAVEFORM?
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This is Turtle.
There is no electric company that supplies electric service to any building in the United States which is 480 volt service without it being 3 phase. You can't seperate 3 phase service from 480 volt service for you can't have one without the other.
Now he did go with a drawed out explanation of the services but everybody does get carried away sometimes.
TURTLE
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"
the
system
connected
is
the
bringing in

building in

can't
without
does
Only point being it doesnt HAVE to come from an electric company is all....
I could bump it up with a transformer, for instance to power a well pump that is fairly far away, then step back down again at the wellhouse.....
Or I can run a small hydropower installation remotey--and easily feed for a fair distance at 440, 440 or even 575 volts, dropping the voltage again at the point of use.....
Or I can fire up my little coleman generator.....there aint no three phase output on that puppy now is there ??? ( though I could easily step this up to be 480v if there was a need )
Single phase simply does not have to come from a three phase source in order to be single phase--yes if it comes from a utility company it has almost certainly been derived from a three phase supply someplace upstream, however this is just fluff when it comes to describing as to what single phase power really is.
== My whole point only being that Mr. "Volts5000" can't handle anyone so much as suggesting he might have given wrong or incomplete information without him going off on a tizzy, because he is such an arrogant know it all.
I seen it before over in alt.havoc and it was so damned easy to bait him into repeating the exact same behavior all over again here it's pathetic.......sheesh--all it took was for me to post "Poor description--two phases ???" to set him off this time.
==
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SVL

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Excuse me? My first reply to you was _civil_, YOU are the one who started with the cussing and the put downs. One of those dish it out but can't take it kinda guys, eh? It was OK for YOU to call me a stupid ass the other day in alt.hvac after you displayed total ignorance of the topic being discussed, just like you're doing now, but when I return the favor you cry like a baby. Point is....don't post stupid crap and you won't have to whine about being corrected.
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Like what--stating some cock and bull story alluding that single phase would always come from a three phase source, then sticking to it come hell or high water ???
....LOL....
At any rate, fishin season is pretty much over here at least for the time being.......I would go back and argue some more but seems pointless--what a piece of work you are, and I do mean that as a complement.
If you care to explain to us one more time what single phase current is, appreciate if you could do it without any reference to polyphase systems--this because generally one should have a working knowlege of these before moving on to the various three phase distribution stuff, instead of it being the other way around--and because in your very first reply you stated to the effect the OP didnt understand polyphase systems despite his initial claim to the contrary.
Cheers,
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SVL

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kinda
corrected.
This is Turtle.
So After the voicing your anger, What do you have to say about it.
TURTLE
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No anger here, Turtle, just speaking to 'em in their own language. I believe that I had most of my say in the "Package Unit Wire/Amp" thread in alt.hvac. and in the bleedover in a few other threads. But now that you bring it up, there are a few more things on my mind. If PJM and his cronies are so adamant about "homemoaners"(as HE and others call them) posting in alt.hvac, and seem to enjoy the personal attacks on them, WHY is it that at least ONE of the regulars over there can't find the time to post the FAQ so that homeowners know not to post there? I also find it interesting that the very same people get their bread buttered by hardworking homeowners find it necessary to refer to the hand that feeds them, in a public forum of all places, as "homemoaners?
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get
to
"homemoaners?
Well, Im not Turtle, but......
But alt.havoc is like a big family there.
However dysfunctional you choose to view is up to you.
Remember, you are now a part of this extended Errrr "Family"................
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SVL

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On 19 Jul 2004 10:13:08 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Volts500) wrote:
snip

I suspect that the very form of elitism that exists on the beer Swillers Porch that is ... Another Hackers Vocal Arsewipe Circus ...precludes any such warning. My guess is the indigenous expect people to read the A.HVAC Charter which (apparently) invites only Professionals to discuss HVAC at a Professional level. Sadly the inhabitants need to revisit the intent of the Charter,, at least IME. That said,, the forum was not always that way inclined,, However too many Xmas's and too many ClicktyKlik WinBloes versions later,, it is the way it is :-(
BTZ
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"Two phases from a three phase circuit" is a single phase circuit. How it's derived isn't really relevant at the point-of-use.
The confusion arises out of the word "phase".
Technically, "three phase" describes the circuit itself. When you "take two phases" from a three phase circuit, "take two phases" is slang for what would have been more clearly said as "taking two of the three hot conductors".

What does that have to do with the situation at hand?

That's also correct, but doesn't imply (as perhaps it should) that the two wires are hot wires. Not one of the hots and a neutral, for example.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Im not confused, someone else is confused about some apparent percieved confusion--you just got caught in the crossfire is all.....

of
order
Absolutely nothing, except to demonstrate you can generate OR pick a single phase and generate three phases from it.
Notwithstanding, I *will* concede that at most any modern commercial power plant, three phases are generated......sheesh....pertty sure theres generally three syncronous alternators upon a common shaft electrically linked via a wye connection.....
Hell, I'm a machinist, myself and many others like me actually make the damned equipment.........
If I look closely I can see bits *I* actually made in these photos :
http://www.transmission.bpa.gov/PlanProj/Transmission_Projects/photos.cfm?page=SNO&pnum &Alt=SnoKing%20Substation
If Mr. Volts500 Sparkie0 dude can puff his chest and brag, then why cant *I* ?

a
Unless its corner grounded delta, or some other obscure and likely obsolete transmission system, granted, no.
Point being, while it is one thing to have a specific service into a facility, and then only purchase equipment that will easily integrate into the existing plant electrical distribution, it is quite another to have the knowledge and ability to interface equipment having different needs into an existing system--480 v single phase can be easily supplied to most any equipment.....pretty much regardless of the existing AC service, be it three phase or single, so long as it is capable of handling the amperage draw of the connected load.
Cheers,
--

SVL

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On 16 Jul 2004 09:37:36 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net (Joshua) wrote:

As you know from your experience with 3-phase power, the voltage between any two of the hots is full voltage while the voltage from one hot to neutral is related by square root of three. Thus 480/277 volt systems that are common in commercial industrial buildings where the lights use 277 and the motors use 480. To get 480 single phase you can use any two of the hots and wire them to the two wires that are not your ground. If you have more than one of these items to hook up, do what you can to balance the load by not hooking all of them across the same two hots (say phase A and phase B). Be sure to use boxes and switches rated for 600 volts not the usual sort rated for 240 or as they say you'll be sorry.... If you have any doubts, hire a qualified electrician.
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Get your facts straight, if your gonna try to use it as a put down, ya chump. It was bleed over from the "Package Unit Wire/Amp Rating" thread, you know it. You know, where you found it necessary to check-in as a cluless moron (along with many of the others in the alt.HVAC subgroup of alt.H(ack)VAC flex/fiberboard duct boys), just like you found it necessary to check-in as a moron in _this_ thread.
"You stoopid ass.
The breaker size is dependant on the wire gage--and it is to protect the wire.......makes no differance if there never gets a load connected to it at all, ever......
Matters not if you connect a 100 amp load to a # 10 wire with a 30 amp breaker--sure it will trip the breaker, but the important thing is it will trip the breaker before the wire catches fire.
--
SVL"

Bitting at my heels like a small dog, no wonder you got kicked, eh?
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at
Find fault with the statement--remember, the intended load has not been defined as of yet..........

more
Chump must be a really serious insult where you are from........means little to me though--do they let folks use computers in the joint???--just curious, as I've heard certain things.........
========= ...................Okay, back to square one here...........................
I have 120/ 208v service, what is 277v single phase ???
Do I need a three phase service to operate a 480v single phase load ???
What is "single phase" ???
How many ways can it be produced ???
======== What a fish........
Ya ever stop to consider you just *might* be taking these usenet *discussions* a bit TOO seriously???
<G>
--
SVL

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