..and has been for years elsewhere.
In Aussie we have been manufacturing and installing 415 Ψ
fan motors for the refrigeration industry for years !
It is also common practice (or was) to connect Refrigeration
systems with a 415 Ψ control circuit..giving the added no cost
protection of a simple phase failure unit...but I wabbit
Thanks for your heads up :-)
Makes absolutely no differance how it is derived--could be from a single
phase generator, or battery backup with an inverter and still be single
You need to toss the three phase reference out the door because it is of
absolutely no value in defining single phase power.....
You have the cart in front of the horse--three phase being three single
phase circuits that are 120 degrees out of phase from each other, connected
together in a star or a triangle configuration.
And by the way, anyone who knows diddly squat about power distribution is
likely not very impressed at your obvious attempts at further clouding the
issue by your rattling off various types of three phase service, bringing in
line to line and center tap voltages, control transformers, streetlight
wiring and all the rest of the irrevelant crap.
Have a nice day.
Get a clue, dummy. In order to get 277/480v from the power co. it's gonna be 3
phase. Obviously you have NO conception of how single phase power is derived
from 3 phase power.
What do you think a WYE connection is?
I should have known that a moron like you couldn't understand basic electric
Looks like you're another one of those alt.H(ack)VAC wannbe
electrician's........as you are making an ass of yourself over knowledge common
to the electrical industry. There is no doubt that you have never done
electrical work for a living to make the statements that you have made. Go back
to doing machine work and leave the wiring to the sparkies before you kill
yourself or someone else.
Fuck off, you imbecile--and just see how far you get by calling people
The OP never mentioned 277 volts....YOU DID THIS, ostensibly as an excuse to
call someone a "dummy".....But if I want 277v though, I certainly dont have
to derive it from a polyphase system.....
Again, voltage has nothing to do with it. Single phase is nothing more than
a single a/c circuit, you scope it and it alternates between a high and a
You only have a single phase.....this is as opposed to a polyphase
1 entry found for single-phase.
Producing, carrying, or powered by
The voltage can be changed easy enough with transformers--run it here....run
it there....isolate it....center tap it, its split phase---but STILL, SINGLE
PHASE......makes no differance how it was derived.......use an old telephone
crank for all I care......
FWIW, I actually have some motors that run on FOUR and some that even run on
FIVE PHASES--commutation is via PWM technology.....
Could be one of the examples above--why dontcha just go ahead and take a
wild guess ???
You havent a clue as to what I might or might not understand, and your doing
yourself no favors by continuing with the name calling here.
I was wiring residential and building shortwave radio from scratch at the
age of ten years old.......
As to your "alt.H(ack)VAC wannbe" statement--you are really starting to
sound a LOT like some of them guys there with this "leave the wiring to the
sparkies before you kill yourself or someone else" attitude, no?
Where *I* live, you dont need a license to do electrical work, it just has
to pass inspection--you just can't charge for it with no license.....
I've wired up many, many new services--and I never once been gigged by the
The last one I did was for myself, a 400amp ct single phase setup with a
pair of 200 amp panels, each panel also feeding a 100 amp to a 50 hp rotary
transformer to generate three phase for the machine shop, this "generated"
power being fed into a pair of three phase panels, branch circuits then
feeding the machinery.
The rotary units I engineered and wired myself, inside of a pair of hoffman
24x36 cabinets--they're protected with overload contactors and they start at
the push of a button, a 220/120v transformer providing control
voltage.....if mains power is interrupted for even a split second the entire
system drops out in order to prevent possible utility line spikes from
damaging the connected load.
You can fool some of the people some of the time.....
"The term "single phase" is a counterpoint to another kind of power system
called "polyphase" which we are about to investigate in detail."
"Single phase power systems are defined by having an AC source with only one
This is Turtle.
There is no electric company that supplies electric service to any building in
the United States which is 480 volt service without it being 3 phase. You can't
seperate 3 phase service from 480 volt service for you can't have one without
Now he did go with a drawed out explanation of the services but everybody does
get carried away sometimes.
I just can't get your counter point here with your reply. Awwwww.
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Only point being it doesnt HAVE to come from an electric company is all....
I could bump it up with a transformer, for instance to power a well pump
that is fairly far away, then step back down again at the wellhouse.....
Or I can run a small hydropower installation remotey--and easily feed for a
fair distance at 440, 440 or even 575 volts, dropping the voltage again at
the point of use.....
Or I can fire up my little coleman generator.....there aint no three phase
output on that puppy now is there ??? ( though I could easily step this up
to be 480v if there was a need )
Single phase simply does not have to come from a three phase source in order
to be single phase--yes if it comes from a utility company it has almost
certainly been derived from a three phase supply someplace upstream, however
this is just fluff when it comes to describing as to what single phase power
My whole point only being that Mr. "Volts5000" can't handle anyone so much
as suggesting he might have given wrong or incomplete information without
him going off on a tizzy, because he is such an arrogant know it all.
I seen it before over in alt.havoc and it was so damned easy to bait him
into repeating the exact same behavior all over again here it's
pathetic.......sheesh--all it took was for me to post "Poor description--two
phases ???" to set him off this time.
Excuse me? My first reply to you was _civil_, YOU are the one who started with
the cussing and the put downs. One of those dish it out but can't take it kinda
guys, eh? It was OK for YOU to call me a stupid ass the other day in alt.hvac
after you displayed total ignorance of the topic being discussed, just like
you're doing now, but when I return the favor you cry like a baby. Point
is....don't post stupid crap and you won't have to whine about being corrected.
Like what--stating some cock and bull story alluding that single phase would
always come from a three phase source, then sticking to it come hell or high
At any rate, fishin season is pretty much over here at least for the time
being.......I would go back and argue some more but seems pointless--what a
piece of work you are, and I do mean that as a complement.
If you care to explain to us one more time what single phase current is,
appreciate if you could do it without any reference to polyphase
systems--this because generally one should have a working knowlege of these
before moving on to the various three phase distribution stuff, instead of
it being the other way around--and because in your very first reply you
stated to the effect the OP didnt understand polyphase systems despite his
initial claim to the contrary.
No anger here, Turtle, just speaking to 'em in their own language. I believe
that I had most of my say in the "Package Unit Wire/Amp" thread in alt.hvac.
and in the bleedover in a few other threads. But now that you bring it up,
there are a few more things on my mind. If PJM and his cronies are so adamant
about "homemoaners"(as HE and others call them) posting in alt.hvac, and seem
to enjoy the personal attacks on them, WHY is it that at least ONE of the
regulars over there can't find the time to post the FAQ so that homeowners know
not to post there? I also find it interesting that the very same people get
their bread buttered by hardworking homeowners find it necessary to refer to
the hand that feeds them, in a public forum of all places, as "homemoaners?
Well, Im not Turtle, but......
But alt.havoc is like a big family there.
However dysfunctional you choose to view is up to you.
Remember, you are now a part of this extended Errrr "Family"................
On 19 Jul 2004 10:13:08 GMT, firstname.lastname@example.org (Volts500) wrote:
I suspect that the very form of elitism that exists on the beer
Swillers Porch that is ...
Another Hackers Vocal Arsewipe Circus
...precludes any such warning.
My guess is the indigenous expect people to read the
A.HVAC Charter which (apparently) invites only Professionals to
discuss HVAC at a Professional level. Sadly the inhabitants need
to revisit the intent of the Charter,, at least IME.
That said,, the forum was not always that way inclined,, However
too many Xmas's and too many ClicktyKlik WinBloes versions
later,, it is the way it is :-(
Sad but true.
"Two phases from a three phase circuit" is a single phase circuit. How
it's derived isn't really relevant at the point-of-use.
The confusion arises out of the word "phase".
Technically, "three phase" describes the circuit itself. When you "take
two phases" from a three phase circuit, "take two phases" is slang
for what would have been more clearly said as "taking two of the three hot
What does that have to do with the situation at hand?
That's also correct, but doesn't imply (as perhaps it should) that the two
wires are hot wires. Not one of the hots and a neutral, for example.
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
Im not confused, someone else is confused about some apparent percieved
confusion--you just got caught in the crossfire is all.....
Absolutely nothing, except to demonstrate you can generate OR pick a single
phase and generate three phases from it.
Notwithstanding, I *will* concede that at most any modern commercial power
plant, three phases are generated......sheesh....pertty sure theres
generally three syncronous alternators upon a common shaft electrically
linked via a wye connection.....
Hell, I'm a machinist, myself and many others like me actually make the
If I look closely I can see bits *I* actually made in these photos :
If Mr. Volts500 Sparkie0 dude can puff his chest and brag, then why cant *I*
Unless its corner grounded delta, or some other obscure and likely obsolete
transmission system, granted, no.
Point being, while it is one thing to have a specific service into a
facility, and then only purchase equipment that will easily integrate into
the existing plant electrical distribution, it is quite another to have the
knowledge and ability to interface equipment having different needs into an
existing system--480 v single phase can be easily supplied to most any
equipment.....pretty much regardless of the existing AC service, be it three
phase or single, so long as it is capable of handling the amperage draw of
the connected load.
On 16 Jul 2004 09:37:36 -0700, email@example.com (Joshua) wrote:
As you know from your experience with 3-phase power, the voltage
between any two of the hots is full voltage while the voltage from one
hot to neutral is related by square root of three. Thus 480/277 volt
systems that are common in commercial industrial buildings where the
lights use 277 and the motors use 480.
To get 480 single phase you can use any two of the hots and wire them
to the two wires that are not your ground.
If you have more than one of these items to hook up, do what you can
to balance the load by not hooking all of them across the same two
hots (say phase A and phase B).
Be sure to use boxes and switches rated for 600 volts not the usual
sort rated for 240 or as they say you'll be sorry....
If you have any doubts, hire a qualified electrician.
Get your facts straight, if your gonna try to use it as a put down, ya chump.
It was bleed over from the "Package Unit Wire/Amp Rating" thread, you know it.
You know, where you found it necessary to check-in as a cluless moron (along
with many of the others in the alt.HVAC subgroup of alt.H(ack)VAC
flex/fiberboard duct boys), just like you found it necessary to check-in as a
moron in _this_ thread.
Here's YOUR clueless post :
"You stoopid ass.
The breaker size is dependant on the wire gage--and it is to protect the
wire.......makes no differance if there never gets a load connected to it at
Matters not if you connect a 100 amp load to a # 10 wire with a 30 amp
breaker--sure it will trip the breaker, but the important thing is it will
trip the breaker before the wire catches fire.
Bitting at my heels like a small dog, no wonder you got kicked, eh?
Find fault with the statement--remember, the intended load has not been
defined as of yet..........
Chump must be a really serious insult where you are from........means little
to me though--do they let folks use computers in the joint???--just curious,
as I've heard certain things.........
...................Okay, back to square one here...........................
I have 120/ 208v service, what is 277v single phase ???
Do I need a three phase service to operate a 480v single phase load ???
What is "single phase" ???
How many ways can it be produced ???
What a fish........
Ya ever stop to consider you just *might* be taking these usenet
*discussions* a bit TOO seriously???
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