Windows 10 updates on 'unsupported' hardware

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3191427/microsoft-windows/developer-lifts-windows-7s-update-blockade-with-unsanctioned-patch.html
Just another way MS is fucking you over. For those of you drinking the Windows 10 koolaid... What flavor is it supposed to be? And, does it taste like it?
Do be careful what you run on Windows 10, as, Edge isn't really 'disabled' as some of you previously thought. I'd hate to see some new malware take advantage of the POS and cause you unwanted grief.
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It's the same flavor that all Microsoft software has had since day 1. :)
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On 05/04/2017 06:06 AM, Bud Frede wrote:

No, MS is really making things worse.
I recently built a machine with a mobo that was designed for Win10 or Ubuntu 16.
I was able to install Win7 with no problems but there were no drivers for USB. (also generic video drivers)
None were provided by the mfg and none of the "usual tricks" worked.
For example, back in the old days XP drivers worked fine for Win2K.
What I did was install Win10 then find the drivers USB was using and I copies the .sys and .inf to a cd.
Booting back to Win7 I used the Win10 drivers in attempt to get USB working. I got the usual message concerning "unsigned drivers" and installed them, That normally would have done the trick but in the situation here, the USB drivers were non-functional.
The upgrade from Win7 to Win10 is still free,so... since this was not costing me anything, I went ahead and decided to use Win10.
A default installation of Win10 is piss poor, but after doing a bit of experimenting and tweaking I managed to get it working quite well and have turned off quite a bit of MS spying...but am quite sure there is more left I will have to trace down.
Some of the tweaking is routine, such as taking apps out of startup and disabling un-needed services.
One thing I had to do was use a minor registry tweak to disable Cortana, then also a (free) 3rd party utility to easily change system fonts.
Some of the problems MS may some day fix, but most of them will be ignored by MS.
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On 05/04/2017 04:28 AM, philo wrote:

Hi Philo,
M$ is a pain-in-the-ass over these matters. They should, but they don't because they want you to buy their latest garbage (Windows Nein, oops Ten).
You have to create a USB flash drive with the Windows 7 USB 3 drivers included.
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25476/Windows-7-USB-3-0-Creator-Utility
After FINALLY getting mine to work, I created a "dd" copy of my flash drive and burn them off whenever I do a custom system.
I am still trying got figure out how to do this with NVMe M.2 drives and W7's ISO, but haven't tried too hard as no one have bought a W7 custom system from me with an NVMe drive in it yet. (NVMe drives EXTREMELY fast.)
-T
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2017 16:38:15 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

That doesn't always work, either. The drivers have to support the hardware, since, er, that's the point of the driver in the first place.
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On Thu, 04 May 2017 16:43:44 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Any recent good quality mobo supports recent Windows and Linux. I went with ASUS for my last 5-6 builds, but that's just personal preference based on my experience with them. Others I've used are Gigabyte, Intel, Micronics, Abit, blah, blah. All were good. I've had no issues with Windows 10. Having driver problems just means you're dealing with antiquated peripherals. This stuff is so cheap nowadays it shouldn't be an issue. The jump from 16-bit to 32-bit software was a bigger issue. Mainly because of bad or no data conversion software. Sometimes it was tedious to do.
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04 May 2017 20:29:03 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Do whatever pleases you. I have no right to tell you how to use your computer. Sure, I can offer advice, but, if you won't put it to good use, what's the point. At the end of the day, it's not my computer.

Not exactly. I commented on the money you were wasting, because, you were only delaying the inevitable. MS doesn't want you running anything other than Windows 10. They've already taken drastic steps to make life difficult for previous flavors of Windows, depending on the hardware you're running. I predict, that's going to get more interesting as time passes, too. At some point, the sheeple who went for Windows 10 will find out a subscription service was in the works the entire time. You'll likely have two choices. Pay a fee, every so often, or accept advertising as some have already experienced on Windows 10. MS isn't in the business of free software. Somebodies gotta cover those salaries.
And since the PC market isn't what it used to be, the sheeple will be picking up the slack.

No, I don't. For reasons I've already stated. So, no point in rehashing them.

Nope. Linux isn't for everyone. As I said, do whatever pleases you. Don't worry about the consequences, You're destined to learn all about them, later on. The hard way.
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May 2017 20:38:50 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Alas, our experience differs by a wide margin too. You seem to be a bit of a hobbyist. When you've serviced thousands of 'modern' machines, get back to me.
[snip]

Why might that be?

I see...So why aren't you a Windows fanboy?

Depends on your needs, I suppose.

:)
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On 05/04/2017 07:40 PM, Diesel wrote:

Even though my own machines are ancient, the ones I work on for friends are typically new. Some of the people I deal with are gamers and have to have the latest and greatest.
I've looked at some of those games, and other than visual effects, graphics and sound, seem to be little different from those old DOS games. LOL
Until Win10 came out, most of my more recent jobs were on Win8 machines and confused owners. Once I put on Classic Shell, the folks stopped crying. (One woman literally came over in tears because she could not use her new computer.)
I have probably repaired more machines that you have...I don't know... but I literally have repaired or built thousands of machines. I've been doing this for about 17 years and at one time had two or three machines on the the bench at a time.
FWIW: Thanks to getting surplus equipment from work, I have all on one of several UPS...industrial grade.
Here are the batteries from my main UPS
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p7n6ywpqi6iaj2b/battery.jpg?dl=0
More than 24 hours of backup.
BTW, as long as I have my Dropbox folder open, here is HALF the battery room from one of my customers
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gn195f6etqtuazs/battery_room.JPG?dl=0

I like Linux and it sure performs better than Windows on my very modest H/W.

No. I use Windows mainly so I can gain familiarity and therefore intelligently help others.
I keep a number of versions of Windows in Virtual machines so I can give people step by step instructions over the phone.
Win8 for example, I have not bare hardware installation.

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On 05/05/2017 11:12, philo wrote:

Now you are just teasing the poor boy! ;-)
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On Fri, 5 May 2017 14:41:06 +0100, "David B."

At one time I had upwards of 30 systems on my bench at one time. We shipped sometimes 150 a week. Thankfully while I was with the company we didn't have to repair too many (well, one is too many when you put a 3 year warranty on the systems (we are talking 25 years ago) - I used to do some "board level" repairs back in the day when it actually made sense (and dollars) to do that.I wouldn't attempt it today (for one thing my eyes are not up to it any more - and second, I've likely forgotten more than a lot of guys today know.)
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

30 was average depending on how busy we were at one particular shop. That doesn't include onsite service calls, custom boxes we built and sold in house, etc. We had KVM switches so we could tie upto 10 into the same mouse/keyboard and screen; reducing wasted space. The space could then be used for more computers. The boss was about the money, so, the more we worked on at once, the more money he could make...
I've done my share of board level repairs too. Everything from providing a new ground plane for a DIN5 keyboard connector to cap replacement, eeprom replacement, burned out diodes, etc. There's just no money in that anymore, unless the machine is something really special and you can't just replace the hardware and move on.
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http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID 9406593300 I'm talking about my /home/ workshop not an actual business. I would work on machines before or after I'd go to my real job.
My 'real job' (one of them anyhow) was and still is that of a computer technician, a multiple certifications technician. His, was not.
Looks like your back to square one, stalker. That one isn't my equal either. <BFG>
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Now for a UPS battery bank that is JUST PLAIN SCARY. Get some proper connection cables on that thing!!! And ballance you banks, for crying out loud!! Your series-parallel connections with an odd number of mismatched batteries is ridiculous.
What are you charging it with? and what kind of UPS is it? How long does it take to recover after a power outage? It appears to be a 24 volt system - my small one is 48 volts and the big one is 60 volts. (Powerware Prestige EXT) Both are dual conversion.
The little one on my wife's system is a 24, and the one backing up my internet modem and VOIP is a 12. Each of my TV cable boxes/pvrs are on their own UPS as well. They are all good for about half an hour, but for long-term outages the natural gas option on my generator provides for virtually unlimited run-time.

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On 05/05/2017 11:36 AM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

That's and old photo , so that particular setup was retired
however...it was a 12v system and all those batteries were in parallel.
In parallel the battery ampere-hours do not have to match but in this case they did. That said, all the amp. hours of the batteries were the same...just different manufacturers.
I probably had seven days of backup power there and if I ever would have discharged them I would have had to use an auxiliary charger.
In my workshop I now have one, 48V UPS and a 24V UPS
The batteries even match. All in all I have a total of five UPS systems installed.
Since I have some lights on the UPS too, most of the time we have a power failure I never even notice .
It is very rare to have a power failure more than a few hours, but we once had one 24 hours, I operated my computer as much as I wanted, but did have to go out for coffee.

The one in the photo was manufactured by Best, now out of business.
It used a ferroresonant transformer so even though it was a single conversion there was not one instant of drop out.
The only dual conversion UPS Ihad bit the dust about a year ago....it was quite ancient.

No generator here, the one 24 hour failure we had was an very odd situation
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I have a Best on my network equipment and phone - but not a Ferro. Those Ferros were pretty innefficient unless you were using them as a space heater ---.Best Power had a great system called the UBS - ever see one of those in opperation??
Best Power was swallowed up by Eaton, who also swallowed up Exide, into the "powerware" brand. WAY better stuff than APC (A Piece of Crap)

I have 3 Powerware Prestige units - one of them an EXT. At the office where I spent the last 16 or more years of mornings we have 4 of the newer Powerware dual conversions - one of them an EXT with the big battery pack. The TV boxes are on simple SOLA boxes and my wife's is an "interactive" Powerware. I find the APC Back-Ups units pretty much useless - - We have about 20 of them still in use at the factory where I spend 2 afternoons a week - battery life is about a year, no matter what brand battery we use (due in large part to heat or overcharging - the batteries are usually swollen or split when removed)
I have not had a split battery in any of the Powerware units so far - and the oldest ones are pushing hard at 23 years old now (new batteries, of course) 2 are 1000kva and one is 650. The line interactive is a 600, as is the old Best. The solas are S2K industrial units - I think they are 450s.

We have had 2 longer than 24 hours since we moved in here 36 years ago. One was 3 days. We have had several longer than 2 hours - and if those are in the winter having power for the furnace makes life a lot more bearable and prevents frozen pipes. I can run the Genny on gasoline or propane at full rated power - on Gasoline 'till I run out of gasoline, on propane untill I run all 3 tanks dry - then on Natural Gass at about 70% rated output virtually for ever on Natural Gas. I might get around to running a bigger gas line which should allow full output on NG as well.
Ice storms are the biggest threat here, followed by Tornados or massive grid failure - which caused the "big one" in 2003.(overheated transmission lines in Ohio, due to extreme power requirements due to prolonged high temperatures, made worse by a poer plant failure etc etc). The "Storm of '98" was the other biggie - and that was in January. A lot of houses had split pipes - and a lot of others didn't only because homeowners drained the pipes before they froze - - or left water taps running.
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On 05/05/2017 02:55 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

dual conversion.

The company I worked for distributed Best (before we were absorbed by Yuasa-Exide and later Enersys-Delaware) They were manufactured here in Wisconsin and I even went to school at the factory. To the best of my knowledge they only had Ferro transformers. That was back around 1988 or so.
The one I have is physically huge and it's only 850 VA (I think)
Twice the size of a 1400 VA using I have on my shop.
The Ferro transformers are maybe 85% efficient . Just remembered however that I took the one I had out of service as under a large inrush load, the thing actually dropped out...(even though in my previous post I mentioned that a Ferro would not drop out I guess that was "in theory" only.)
BTW: With regard to charging, the Best UPS used hysteresis loop techniquie. It worked very well and would often confuse people used to "float" charging.
Please let me know about UBS I never heard of it.

The 24 hour drop-out took place after a fire. It was water damage from underground seepage.
BTW: I wrote a m=nice letter to Eagle Picher last year, in my shop I have a 6v battery I use on my in-shop continuity test butter...the battery was manufactured in 1992 and still has some capacity!
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca Fri, 05 May 2017 19:55:04 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

It depends on which APC you have. Some did outright, suck.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca Fri, 05 May 2017 16:36:15 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

The ones I actually have in service are 24 volt based. I don't have them tied via data connection to any of the computers though
I just leave them plugged in and that's it. If the house loses power for more for more than a few minutes, one of the generators will kick on anyhow; so, I shouldn't have to worry about the UPS actually running down far enough to go offline on me.

My APC SmartUPS 700 is supposedly good for about 45 minutes, depending on load. It's got brand new batteries in it too. I got them for $11 a piece at walmart of all places! Heh. It's tied into the file server for the LAN and this particular workstation. another UPS provides filtered power for the switch gear, etc. I know many APC models sucked ass, but, this happens to be one that isn't bad. It's reliable. Provides clean, filtered current for my boxes at all times. I like that.
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On 05/05/2017 05:12 AM, philo wrote:

BD: I saw your question of Drop Box, those are forklift batteries and there is a battery extractor machine for removing them from the trucks and putting them on the racks and visa-versa.
The ones you see are not the largest there are.
Some batteries weigh as much as 4000# and require an overhead crane to handle them
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