Why don't we have more nuclear power?

[gfretwell]

People act like we built a few reactors in the 50s and 60s, they were a miserable failure and we had to just give up on them.

Nobody seemed to tell the Navy that (ours or the soviets/russians). Virtually every capital ship built in the last 30 years has nuke power and the world is awash in retired veterans, looking for work, who have

20 years or more experience in running them. This is a very mature science with an excellent safety record. Fuck you Jane Fonda and the rest of the intellectually deficient people who protest them. If you insist, then STFU about global warming.

[trader_4]

There is of course a huge difference between the Navy and civilian uses. Like the increased national security from having couple dozen boomer subs able to stay at sea for six months at a time. And that the Navy doesn't much care what the cost is, while for civilian use, nuclear has to be competitive. I think there is a roll for nuclear and you'd think the global warming folks who say the world is going to end if we don't do something soon, would be in favor of allowing part of that something to be nuclear power.

There are about 50 nukes under construction right now around the world, more in the planning stages. Last couple that got started here, went bust after Westinghouse went bust.

I agree with the last part. If we're headed for such an epic disaster, then clearly nuclear is orders of magnitude better than that.

[Home Guy]

I live about 50 miles from the largest nuclear power generating facility in the world.

And since it's based on the Canadian "CANDU" reactor design, it's inherently safe and has almost no possible failure modes. This is unlike the US based GE designs, which are boiling-water based, and have several failure modes (Japan discovered this a few years ago and are still struggling with containing it).

See my next post regarding this timely topic on nuclear power and US uranium supply...

[micky]

Sailors are paid to face death, civilians doen't want to. We've had ships sink, including submarines where the entire crew dies. But they still build ships.

Chernobyl, 3-mile Island, and the one in Japan. Plus even when things go well, no place is willing to take the waste material.

So if people don't use your remedy, they shouldn't complain? You're in charge? Is that true about everything?

[micky]

BTW, and probably most important wrt to your last line, it's only some of the same people who are against nuclear power who want to do something about climate change. So if A prevents the country from building nuclear power plants, then B shouldn't complain about global warming?

[Cindy Hamilton]

What's your long-term plan for the waste?

Cindy Hamilton

[gfretwell]

Yucca mountain seems like a decent idea but newer reactors actually burn the waste and create more fuel. The problem is the fuel is "too good". (almost weapon's grade)

[gfretwell]

Tell me again, how many people died at TMI? You also can't confuse the flawed design of Chernobyl or Fukishima with the reactors they know how to build.

Nobody knows what to do with CO2 either and if I believe Al Gore that is going to kill us all.

It is not my remedy, it is what the rest of the developed world is doing. We just let a few activists scare us out of the obvious answer.

[micky]

It doesn't matter. These are three of the reasons people don't want them.

I don't know how one can convince people of that.

It might kill us, but until then, it blows away.

This is not one of my big interests. I'm just telling you the r easons other people have.

But you are the one who just now said they should stfu about global warming. The rest of the world is not here saying that, you are. So again I say, if people don't use the remedy you recommend, they shouldn't complain? You get to decide who complains about what? You're in charge? Is that true about everything?

BTW, and probably most important wrt to your last line, it's only some of the same people who are against nuclear power who want to do something about climate change. So if A prevents the country from building nuclear power plants, then B shouldn't complain about global warming?

Even if you're right, that happens on a lot of things.

[trader_4]

The Japanese aren't good at engineering and design? If the Japanese failed to plan for a tsunami, built a nuke where tsunami's are known to happen, seems US engineers could do the same. They kind of have, building nukes in earthquake prone areas, near faults, etc. Wouldn't surprise me if we have an "ooops" from one. We got lucky with TMI, it could have been Fukishima, it was on the same path, similar design.

That I agree with. If global warming is going to destroy the world and do irreparable harm, then certainly nuclear power should be one of the alternatives, but mostly the same folks won't allow it. It's like telling people their kitchen is on fire, but refusing to use a bucket of water to put it out because the water might possibly harm something.

[micky]

I understated this for some reason. It's not one of my interests at all. Maybe it should be but it's not.

Just heard Bill Weld on C-span for about 40 minutes, 14 minutes talking and 25 minutes answering questions. He's a reminder of the days I respected Republicans, and he sounds like he'll be a good candidate.

GF, you might like to know that he's in favor of more nuclear power for the US.

He said someething like what you said, that new power plants consume their own waste. That's disgusting. I knew of a dog that did that, and I don't think I can support it by a non-animal either. But like I say, it's not one of my interests. Others can decide.

He spoke on Thursday at Dartmouth and I'm sure if you go to C-Span.org, you can find a recording of it to play.

Micky

[gfretwell]

So you admit we have a policy based on ignorance.

Donald Trump tell you that? It sounds like something he would say.

We know about the things you think about.

I am just saying when the obvious solution is right in front of your face, why do you hang you hat on other boondoggles that only work in a few places and only serve a few people? They still get vociferous resistance if you actually try to do them. I only have to point out the NIMBY people and "Cape Wind".

[gfretwell]

Yes I am saying the Japanese are not really good at design and engineering. They make things that look good on the surface but fail when they get put to the real test of use. I only have to point to the Jap Zero. It looked like the greatest fighter of all time until we figured out they forgot the self sealing fuel tank. One 50 cal API round and it went up like throwing a frozen turkey in a turkey fryer. That plant, build right in the tsunami zone is another excellent example. Your idea that the two accidents had anything in common is just stupid. They don't have a lot of tsunami activity in central Pennsylvania. Volcanoes either.

[gfretwell]

I voted for Bill Weld as VP in 2016 while you were wasting your vote on Hillary.

[trader_4]

I only have to point to the fact that the Japanese reactor design was the same as what's used in the US and TMI. We just got lucky at TMI and they didn't lose power to the facility.

It looked like the greatest fighter of all time until we

The plants were of very similar design. One, the brilliant engineers couldn't prevent simple human error from creating a meltdown. The other the designers didn't foresee a tsunami. Kind of like what will be said here if an earthquake causes a similar Fukashima accident. Ooops, no one saw that coming.....

I have no problems adding nuclear to the mix of solutions that includes solar, wind, etc. But to claim that the Japanese are somehow incompetent at engineering and building things is what's really stupid. They've kicked the US asses, cars being the most stunning example.

[Cindy Hamilton]

The physics is not complicated. You should do a little research. Why aren't you curious about the world?

Cindy Hamilton

[Ed Pawlowski]

Weld was well like when he was governor of MA. I'd love to see him running and he'd get my vote.

[trader_4]

IDK much about him, except that he's one of the no charisma guys, like Kasich. Last election, Americans decided that competence and experience didn't matter, they wanted the reality TV star. You think they've wised up? I suspect enough have that Trump won't get re-elected, even if he makes it that far. the GOP should dump him now, while there is still time to find a decent candidate.

[rbowman]

[gfretwell]

Losing power wasn't the issue it was flooding.

They live in the "ring of fire" and they didn't foresee a tsunami? Tsunami is a f****ng Japanese word. No wonder they lost the war.

It wasn't the stunning design as much as the stunning quality in which the cars were built. They were not dragging the UAW around like a chain around their necks. I have a prelude, you can't tell me about how good the engineers are. Step one in the shop manual for replacing the timing belt is "see remove engine". A belt job on a Sunbird was about 2 hours the first time I did it. Honda had my prelude in the shop and actually being worked on for 2 days. ($1000 for a belt)