Where to get car rear-deck speakers (haven't bought speakers in decades)

I haven't worked on speakers in decades. <
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers1.jpg

How do we debug a scratchy sound? We can isolate it with the balance to a single speaker.
But is it the speaker? Or something else?
If it's the speaker, where is a good place (other than the dealer) to get speakers to fit a car rear deck? Are they all standard sizes nowadays? Or is each unique?
I'm helping the neighbor's kid refurbish a beat-up 2005 Camry where I helped her kid put in new speaker covers this weekend but the scratch sound persisted (we thought it might have been the crud or vibration from the crumbling melted-in covers).
The scratchy sound persisted even with the newly replaced covers. <
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers2.jpg

Any suggestion on how to debug the cause of the scratchiness? If it's the speakers themselves, are these things standard sizes nowadays?
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On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:14:31 +0000 (UTC), harry newton

Interchange the wires at the speakers - you'll prove that it's the speaker and not the stereo or wiring. Pull out the bad speaker & look for a tiny tear - try fixing it -
http://www.300guitars.com/300s-tips/300-tip-how-to-repair-small-tears-in-speaker-cones/
or shop for a replacement. John T.
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Keep it simple - introducing more variables - such as a different third speaker and its wiring .. etc just confuses the issue. .. especially when a simple and straight-forward trouble-shooting method is available. John T.
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On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 11:20:13 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

So, it's not nonsense to use another speaker that may be available to test, it's just that it's not *your* method. It may be easier and simpler to use another speaker. Are the wires and connections to the other rear speaker available or is further disassembly required? Not unusual that you have to remove the speaker before you can get to the wires. So now you have to remove the other speaker. And even if you don't have to remove the other good speaker, you almost certainly aren't going to just move the wires from it to the other side to run the test. The wires typically are not going anywhere. Given that, I don't think it's nonsense to use another speaker which can be quickly connected with some jumper wires to test. I have a few here that I could easily use instead of pulling the other speaker out. If he wants to pull the other one, fine. But it's clearly not nonsense to suggest using another speaker.
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In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 4 Dec 2017 08:29:51 -0800 (PST), trader_4

Speakers for cars, last I looked, tended to be 4 ohms, while those for record players (oops, stereos, or whatever they are called now) tend to be 8 ohms. Perhaps this has changed but no one told me.
I don't think this difference is noticeable in the short run, and certainly not if one is listening to one speaker at a time.
But I wouldn't install an 8-ohn speaker when all the others are 4-ohm. OTOH, I'm sure you didn't mean to install it permanently since it would be almost impossible to find one that would fit. You referred to testing.
And John didn't give ohms as a reason for his statement.
BTW, the woofer in Toyota convertibles is I think meant to make up for lack of bass when the top is down, so if I'm right and his is not a convertible, it wouldn't have a woofer.
On my 2000, I didnt' know there was one until I removed the back of the back seat for some reason. The speaker was disconnected, one of the two voice coil wires** was cut, and the surround had mostly fallen off. I bought a kit for $25 and redid the surround, suprisingly easy (check with me on where I bought the kit, there are about three vendors and they're not the same), I resoldered the cut speaker lead, and I plugged the speaker in.
Voila, too much bass. I turned down the bass and still too much bass. I think now the previous owner, a middled-aged woman, complained and so they cut one of the voice coil wires, and it was still too loud so she had them disconnect the whole thing. She was right. Then I bought a new car and the 2005's woofer doesn't have the same problem. I turned the bass down one notch and it's good now.
**I guess so it could play both channels without mixing them electrically.
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In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 09:19:06 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

You mean change + to - at each speaker? If that's what you mean, not only will that take a long time but it won't prove anything.
And by the way, OP, you have to observe polarity when you install new speakers or reinstall old ones, or the sound will be terrible. There is usually a red dot on the Plus connector of the speaker. I'm sure there are better instructions with any new speaker you buy, and old speakers should be reinstalled as they were.

That's a good idea. I take scratchiness to refer to something other than a tear, but tears exist too. Buzzing or humming, and maybe scratching on occasion (because who knows what sound that really refers to) is caused by a tear in the cone.

He is vague when he says, Elmers the same as we used in grade school. Elmers white glue comes in two kinds now, "School" glue and the original. I assume that since I'm not 7 years old anymore, any advantage the school glue has** is lost on me and the other one is better.
**It's washable, even after it dries, I guess.
But for rips I wouldn't use white glue like he says. I've used rubber cement several times in the past with good results. Rubber cement is flexible.
This bit about a patch might be a good idea for major damage but most little rips just need a few drops of rubber cement.

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If it's the speakers themselves, are these things standard sizes nowadays?
Yes, no, maybe so.
I recently replaced the speakers in my 2001 Toyota 4Runner. The rear door speakers were a strange size, and Crutchfield's database was telling me that I had to do some drilling to install standard 5 1/4" speakers. However this site, <http://www.car-speaker-adapters.com had the proper adapter to avoid drilling <http://www.car-speaker-adapters.com/items.php?id=SAK039 . It also allowed me to use deeper speakers but with the existing grilles.
I found the best deal on speakers on sale at Fry's. I was going to buy the same speakers at Crutchfield but they were considerably more expensive. Ditto for the new head unit I put in, JVC KW-V830BT, it was about $100 less on sale at Fry's.
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replying to harry newton, Iggy wrote: Nice work on the grills! Yeah, the scratchiness is from either a separated coil or torn cone, you'll need replacement...of both while the car is finally apart, what an "engineering" mess. Auto Parts stores, Junkyards and most anywhere pertinent online from Walmart to Crutchfield ( https://www.crutchfield.com/S-VDtdeTrOHie/ ). Crutchfield's a long time car audio site (who's now expanded) with very good customer service. They can help you replace or upgrade both rears, even saving you the measuring to tell you the size for the specific car. I prefer the polymer or plastic cone speakers, much richer sound. Manufacturer speakers are usually pretty good, so don't commit to cheapies without hearing them in the car first.
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You can swap the speaker for the one from the other side. But "scratchy" sounds are apt to be rubbing voice coils which you can feel by pressing on the cone with your thumbs.

There are several standard sizes. You can buy cheap replacement speakers from chain auto parts stores. You can buy the same speakers for half as much from Parts Express but then pay postage on them. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 8:14:41 AM UTC-5, harry newton wrote:

Others have given some tips on how to figure out if it's the speaker. Another idea is to hook up some other speaker, eg one from a stereo system and see what it does.
For speakers and what will fit which car, Crutchfield has always been a good source. If you figure out what you want, Ebay is another source. But if buying some name brand, be careful on Ebay, especially name brands shipping from China, many are counterfeit.
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Nonsense. John T.
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On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 10:07:05 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

And why exactly do you claim it's nonsense? Seems if you have some real expertise to share, you could just spell it out.
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On 12/4/2017 10:08 AM, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

Nice of you to comment but it would we could learn something if you explained it. Why would another speaker not work?
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In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:14:31 +0000 (UTC), harry

Then it's the speaker. I'm assuming you used both the left-to-right balance and the front-to-rear fader so you were really listening to only one speaker at a time. If there is a problem in the left channel, it will be heard in both the front and rear speaker.

Yes.

No.

The dealer is a terrible place. Do they even sell speakers?

Crutchfield. Very reliable. Very helpful on the phone with real people. They're in Charlotte, Va. and I'm in Baltimore and I ordered something and I wasn't in a hurry but I got it the next day.
I recommend them highly despite that they did make a mistake, like other vendors do, wrt the inputs on my 2005 Solara radio. This is the E7001 radio, but I don't think E7002 is any different. These are both Navigation radios that only hold one CD, and with some such radio, if you press the CD button twice, it goes to the CD deck, and it does have a jack for a CD deck (or satellite) and they sell devices that will use such a jack for USB/AUX input. Well that doesn't work on these radios, but they took my word for it, sent me a paid-mailing label, I sent it back as if it were new, dropped it off at a UPS place, and I got my refund the next day.
I've also bought speakers from them more than once in the past. No one else has a better list of cars and their dimensions.
You SHOULD NOT MESS with dash speakers. There was a recall on dashboards from that year and a couple others, on the Solara but I'm pretty sure on the Camry too, and some of them have deteriorated so bad they replaced the dash for free. My dash has a few hairline cracks, but when I tried to lift the 3 digital gauges above the center AC outlets, I put a tiny nick in the dash, behind the gauges. Plainly my dash, also a 2005, is softer than when it was made. (But I'm prettty sure it's nowhere near bad enough to get them to replace it for free, plus the recall has expired anyhow.) I had to go at the gauges from another direction and I did get them up, to reach the radio bolts and remove the radio (long enough to unplug that device above that didn't work. I had been able to plug it in from the bottom without removing the radio.) So there is a tiny nick there
Since you refer to the deck, I assume this is really a Camry and not a Solara, which some people call a Camry Solara. And that it's a sedan and not a convertible, because the convertibles also have a woofer behind the rear seat. I don't think it's even mentioned in the owners manual or anywhere but the wiring diagram, but it's there.

For crud, I would have washed the covers in the dishwasher. It does a great job on things like this.

Yes, but there are lots of sizes, especially when you consider depth.
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wrote:

WEhy is it a terrible place"? -0 and of course they sell speakers. The right ones, that bolt in properly, even. Yes, they cost abit more than the ones that don't fit.

They will likely have "universal" speakers and adapter brackets - which usually work OK - - - - -

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In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:45:35 -0500, Clare Snyder

AIUI, the dealers' speakers are no better than what they put in the car originally, but it's possible things have changed. Anyoone know? If they are no better than original, they are still useful when the original ones have been ruined somehow.

Who is talking about ones that don't fit? I've never bought a speaker from Crutchfield that didn't fit just as the original one did, except for one car. I knew from the specs printed in the catalog (before the web) that it was too deep, but I hoped magic would allow me to get it in there (or maybe I could pound out a dent in the outside of the door!). Indeed, it was just the depth they said it was, and so was the hole in my car and it didnt' fit. Hmm. I'm sure the dealer would have had speakers that fit, but I don't know that they would have been any better than what I had.

Have you dealt with Cructchfield. No speaker I ever bought from them used an adapter bracket, and none would be called universal. Of course a 6x9x2.8" speaker can univerally fit every car that accespts speakers of that size, but that doesn't make the speaker universal.
I won't be replacing my current speakers. Solaras don't use speaker cover, except maybe on the dash. So to upgrade my speakers I'd have to, I think, take off my entire inside front door panel or my entire rear seat panel. After the fiasco of my last car, I'm not going to do that.
They do sell radios that require a bracket, because the face is not the same exact shape as the original, or because one is changing from 2 or 1.5 DIN to 1 DIN, etc. But I don't think that's related.

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On 12/04/2017 10:50 PM, micky wrote:

Short of a volume limiter, I don't believe you can protect a speaker from a teenager.
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On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:14:31 +0000 (UTC), harry newton

Not "standard size" - they are often even different from mdel to madel in a brand, or year to yrear in a model.
Try scrapyard? Otherwise dealer is best bet. There are kits to put "standard" speakers in, but they are not terribly satisfactpry. O have installed non-OEM speakers by making adapter plates - basically not worth the hassle.
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He who is Clare Snyder said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:39:10 -0500:

Thanks for all the advice - I haven't touched speakers in decades!
I like the ideas of: a. Testing with a separate speaker (if I can find one) b. Testing by jumping the wires (shouldn't be too hard).
At this point, I'm trying to figure out what size fits.
Here is a picture of the topside of the speaker when we replaced the grill: <
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker5.jpg

Here is the bottom underside in the trunk: <
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker6.jpg

The kid is at college so she only comes home to the neighbor sporadically so I'm just lining up my ducks now.
Looking at the advice to call Crutchfield, they seem to be good and bad. They were very helpful. 1.844.298.3430 About $50 for two speakers.
The problem is *every* speaker they have for the 2005 Camry doesn't fit. https://www.crutchfield.com/g_400/All-Car-Speakers.html?tp 5&l=E&pg=1
The guy was helpful and said I had to make my own bracket. Huh? Why can't it just bolt in? (I'm glad I asked because I didn't expect that.)
Amazingly, they have 200 speakers they say that fit, of three sizes: 5-1/4, 6-1/2, and 6x9 (I didn't think to measure it unforutnately)
I don't have the car in hand, but apparently there are three types: a. With navigation (she doesn't have it) b. With JBL audio system (I'll have to ask - probably not) c. Without both of those (this is probably what they have)
I called the Toyota dealership and gave them the VIN where they told me their price was $298 for a single OEM Pioneer 6x9 speaker + about $30 tax, so, since I'll likely want to get a set, that would be $660 for the set.
I just can't pay that. Even for a nice neighbor's kid. It's just too much.
Since Camelback Toyota in Arizona usually has the best prices, I called them and they told me, from the VIN, that the radio is a "Fujitsu 10" and the speaker part number is 86160-AA450, they sell for half that price, at $300 for the set. https://partsfactory.camelbacktoyota.com/oem-parts/toyota-pkg-tray-speaker-86160aa450/
It's back to Crutchfield I go! :)
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On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 3:44:24 PM UTC-5, harry newton wrote:

I guess that answers Clare's question about why not go to a dealership, or stealership as I call them..... You can probably find the Toytota part online, from another dealer for less, but in my experience, for something like this, it's never close to what aftermarket parts go for.

Bingo, just read the part where you said you can find it for less at another dealer, but it's still lots of bucks. Another option, find the latest model car that used that speaker and try a salvage yard. Buying speakers at a salvage yard wouldn't be my first choice, for obvious reasons, but if you can find ones that are less than ten years old or so for $10, you don't have much to lose.
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