Utility shed situation

[trader_4]

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.

And if upon showing up you said that to me, I'd say what that poster here says all the time: Get off my lawn! If you have an issue like that right off the bat, I don't want you working on my house. I've had the occasional trades folk over many times, never found one that had an issue with a place to plug in an extension cord or where to get power. Only one time in 25 years was powered needed for the AC service. And if they need power or water, they typically just ask where it's located.

[Ralph Mowery]

If you get a company like the "One Hour Heating and Air" like I did, it does not matter.

That shyster company charged me about $ 350 just to replace the motor capacitor. Took the man (who was very good) about 5 min to find the problem , 10 min to replace the capacitor counting the time to walk back to his truck and button the unit up.

It was not the service man as he showed me a list of standard billings for the company.

I would not have thought much of it if the bill had been around $ 150. Figure the $ 100 for a standard call and $ 50 allowing for atleast doubling their cost of the cpacitor.

Seems they are part of another company that wanted $ 1800 to replace my electric water heater. I told the man that came out, "no thanks". He called the company and they said $ 1300. Again , no sale.

Another small company replaced it for $ 900. Labor was $ 200 for 2 men for about 2 hours of work and the other was for the cost of the heater and pumbing parts. Seemed fair to me.

I don't mind a man making a fair living, but I hate getting ripped off.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Here in FL there are many AC service companies advertising on TV. Scary, actually. I have to wonder if they have a different price sheet depending on the temperature. On a really hot day people just want the AC running.

[trader_4]

There was one of those TV shows that busts crooks on some years ago where they called out AC companies to fix an AC that had a minor problem. I think it was a blown fuse or disconnected contactor wire. They had previously called out a reputable company to check it out, make sure everything else was OK and stage it. Out of three AC companies they showed, only one was honest. That guy didn't even want to get paid for the call, which, IMO, is nuts. The other two said there were big problems, might as well get a new system. It is really bad, because most homeowners have no way of knowing if they are being told BS or not.

[gfretwell]

A lot of HVAC companies pay techs the same commission on the sale of a system as the salesman. They have an incentive to sell a system. I suppose it could be argued that replacing an old one with a newer high SEER machine is saving the customer money in the long run but it should be a sale based on that, not a scare tactic, or worse, an ice pick. (I found your problem, you have a leak and the law will not allow me to recharge a leaking system). My wife sold HVAC but she didn't have a problem telling someone they didn't need one. They also sold a bunch of them because they had a good price, generally better than the high pressure guys.

[gfretwell]

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk. For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it? If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right now. Write a proposal.

[trader_4]

How is the AC guy going to fix the AC system without someone being home or giving him access to the house?

"I need power for my pump, where is it"?

"I'll open the bathroom window and you can hand me your extension cord"

Good grief, you sure can make simple things complicated. That or similar, eg, where do you have a water spigot, happens all the time. Now get off my lawn so I can get a reasonable company!

[Clare Snyder]

A LOT of HVAC guys carry a small generator with them in the truck. They are "self sufficient" just like a lot of roofers who use gas powered compressors so they don't need to access customer power.

[gfretwell]

Somebody being home is not the same as somebody who can remove a screen. Some are easy, some require taking out rusty screws and clips. Lots can go wrong there.

I don't understand way a guy who advocates a receptacle every 30 feet along the outside wall is so adamant against this one. Sometimes I just think you like to argue.

Write a proposal and see what CMP 2 says. They will give you an answer no matter how dumb they think a proposal is.

BTW my old buddy Harold Endean from Montville New Jersey explained why dropping a cord out the window is a bad idea in his 2002 proposal.

"No GFCI protection".

The requirement for a receptacle in attics, crawl spaces and commercial rooftops has been in article 210 since the GHWB administration. All HVAC condensers came in 2002 with a total rewrite of 210-63.

[trader_4]

I like to argue? All I said was that if the issue is having electric receptacles available for the very rare occasion when an AC guy needs it to run a vacuum pump, then it would make more sense to require receptacles outdoors every 25 feet or so, because of the outdoor uses of electricity, the AC guy thing happens maybe every 10 or 20 years. On the other hand, people use leaf blowers, power washers, electric lawn mowers, paint sprayers, saws, Xmas lights, etc far more often. That didn't seem argumentative or unreasonable and apparently it wasn't to anyone but you.

If you read what I posted you'd see that I said exactly that many posts ago. Which again is why it would make more sense to require outdoor receptacles every X feet, instead of worrying about the AC guy and forget all the rest of the uses where people are running it out a window with no GFCI.

[gfretwell]

I have never seen that but Florida is pretty serious about the receptacle requirement. It would occur to me that if they just had a

100' extension cord (or a couple of 50s) they should be able to get to 120v just about anywhere.

[gfretwell]

The NEC moves incrementally. The requirement for a receptacles in attics and crawl spaces long predated the universal requirement, all they did was remove the words attic and crawl space. Most NEC changes are simply adding or deleting a word here and there. Occasionally they do a total rewrite but that is usually to clean up the language from those incremental changes. That outside receptacle thing is evolving too. I doubt it will ever be every 30 feet but the next step may be all 4 sides instead of just front and back. That may only mean one more tho if the AC unit is on one side.

BTW the "No GFCI" is what killed the "out the window" thing.

[Clare Snyder]

Out the kitchen or bath window you have GFCI - by code mot basement ouitlets as well - not???

[gfretwell]

Now you are assuming the HVAC unit is close to the kitchen or bath.

[Cindy Hamilton]

If a guy can't trust his wife to remove a window screen, he married the wrong woman. Every time we clean the windows I have to remind my husband that it's a big fricking deal to remove the screens. Stupid

1980s windows. Grumble, grumble, grumble. Still, the inconvenience is minor and the cost to replace them is high.

It's a different story, of course, if it's due to age and/or infirmity.

Cindy Hamilton

[trader_4]

You can't make Fretwell happy. He claims it's too difficult to run an extension out a window. So, you say that it would be a good idea that instead of the code focusing only on AC units, it should require outdoor receptacles spaced so a 25 ft ext could cover the perimeter, and then he doesn't like that and says you just want to argue.

[Cindy Hamilton]

Although I admit I'd like a receptacle near the front of the house, the two at the back are usually sufficient. When we bought the house there was only one (and it's pretty sketchy so we don't use it much) but when my husband installed lights over the gas grill and a GFI receptacle nearby, he ran a home run. It's within 50 feet of the air-conditioner. That'll just have to do.

I'd bet there was no exterior receptacle at all until the mid 1980s when someone added a three-season porch to the back of the house. They didn't finish the brick wall that used to be the exterior, and there are no signs of a penetration.

We've had the electrical inspector out a few times, most recently for the automatic standby generator. He never said boo about receptacles.

Cindy Hamilton

[gfretwell]

I am just talking about what CMP 2 decided. If you think they are full of shit, write a proposal but they are going to say running cords out of windows from a circuit that may not be GFCI is not acceptable.

[Vic Smith]

Yeah, me too. I don't have a single GFCI in my house. If a contractor wants GFCI protection, he'll have to bring it with him.

[Clare Snyder]

snipped

Or the basement - or the garage - - - -