Two Back Wires, Two White Wires, WTH?

[julierobertsevans]

Finally found a solution to our bathroom wiring nightmare!!! Thank you!!

One of the two pairs of wires goes to the switch. You have to figure out which one. Best thing to do is to disconnect all the wires, turn on the breaker, then CAREFULLY use a neon tester to see which wire pair is "hot". This is the one that ISN'T the switch.

Then TURN THE BREAKER OFF AGAIN, connect the BLACK wire from the pair you found to be hot to the WHITE wire of the other pair (the pair that goes to the switch) with a wire nut. Then connect the remaining black and white wires to the fixture.

[Hawk]

WHAT? You never connect hot to neutral.

Any switch uses the two hot wires and the two neutrals are wired together. Is that what you meant? Cause that's not what I read.

[Anonymous]

It would appear that he is talking about the wiring in the light fixture box, where the "line in" hits the fixture first, then goes to the switch (aka "California" wiring).

See the right hand diagram at

He should also mark the 2 whites with black tape, as shown.

[Jim Joyce]

Your "solution" is the beginning of a whole new nightmare. What you're describing is not right.

[Hawk]

Ahh, thanks for clarifying.

[gfretwell]

When you use NM as a switch loop, that is exactly right. The white wire is the hot to the switch and it is not a neutral.

[micky]

I couldnt' follow what you were saying, but what I do in any but the simplest case is make a drawing.

The drawing should include any wire, switch, or light that is shwoing, visible, and it should make sense. Mark the colors of the wires on the drawing and if there are two wires of the same color, you can use white electric tape to tape them after first writing with indelible marker on the tape which wire it is. then the next guy won't have to do as much work as you have to do.

[Clare Snyder]

It was likely a "drop switch" - power to the light box, 2 wire dropped from the box to the switch. SHOULD have white of feed to the fixture, black of feed to white of 2 wire to switch - marked with black tape, black marker or black shrink tube both at the fixture and at the switch, with the black from the switch connected to the black of the fixture. So yes, you DO connect black to white - but you mark the white. (the remarked white is NOT NEUTRAL)

[Snag]

I saved all that confusion by running my wiring all under the house - and bringing my hots to the switch box . The only wiring in the attic is the runs from the switches to the fixtures and a pair of 14/3's run from one switch box to another for 2 fixtures that are switched in 2 locations .

[Clare Snyder]

That's the "right" way to do things - might take a bit more copper but makes the job easier when you install AND when you or someone else needs to fix something.

[Jim Joyce]

I wasn't thinking of switch loops. They aren't common where I come from.

[micky]

The last sentence is just a passing comment. For one thing, the next guy might also be you. And the drawing is meant to help, and will help, THIS time, not next time.

[thekmanrocks]

___________ Wait- What?!

Painters? Removing ANYTHING electrical? That's your first problem right there!

Did you give them authority in the first place to remove those fixtures?

If the paint project involved the removal of anything electrical, besides a TABLE LAMP, I would call in someone who actually understands your lights, like an ELECTRICIAN.

If you experience a collapsed arch in one of your feet, do you go to your DENTIST?

As far as your outdoor lights go, what you describe sounds similar to the wiring for a typical up & down stairs(two way) hall light. You have a hot wire there going to, not a neutral wire, but a Common wire. Common and neutral are completely different.

[gfretwell]

The fairly new NEC change (14?) that requires a neutral at all switching locations will make switch loops pretty rare in the future. It was very common to use a ceiling light box as a junction box for all the wiring going to that end of the house and where a multiwire circuit was split out. The switch that controlled that light was always on a loop. Typically the other hot side of that multiwire fed another ceiling box in another room and that was where that feed got split out. It saves wire but the down side was that a whole room went dark when the breaker tripped. That was before all multiwire circuits were required to be grouped in the panel and be on a handle tied breaker so they might split some of the receptacles on a shared wall to give you some power in the room if the other breaker tripped.

The far end of my house is wired that way. I did put the multiwire on a 2 pole but I also pulled in another circuit.