Three Light Tester Shows Open Ground for Outlets in Main Living Spaces

[Elle N]

I have a purchase agreement on a home. The home was built around 1950. The inspection was today. All the electrical outlets in the living room, dining room and the two bedrooms have open grounds. This is per my electrical receptacle tester (only one, yellow lamp for these receptacles lights on the tester). The inspector noted this as well and recommended that these outlets "be corrected by an electrical contractor."

Are the chances high (like certain?) that the wiring to these rooms' receptacles is two-wire? That is, a wiring system installed in new construction today would run three wires to each receptacle, one wire being a ground wire and connecting to the outlets' boxes?

I saw some of the old, black colored insulated wiring in the garage. I did not think to take a cover plate off any of the outlets and investigate more closely.

I am aware the risk of an electrical problem or in an extreme case, electrocution, is low. But I am not sure I am wild about paying what I am paying for the home given an ungrounded system.

The fix is a GFCI circuit at the front end of any ungrounded circuit (inexpensive) or re-wiring (expensive), correct?

[gfretwell]

In 1950 the idea of grounding was just catching on. I am not sure if there was a required ground in Romex in the 50 code or not. Look at the wire in the panel and see if there are any grounding wires coming out of the Romex. If not GFCIs are your only mitigation but they won't help much for surge protection. Even if there are grounds in the Romex they must not be terminated in the boxes or the tester would have shown a ground via the attachment yoke. In my old house in Md (1953 build) had Romex with a 16ga wire it for the ground terminated to the box. That might have been a GI bill requirement tho.

[Elle N]

gfre..., thank you for bringing up surge protection and how GFCIs are not necessarily going to be able to prevent damage to, say, a computer or other electronics when the house wiring is not grounded. After reading your post, I went reading up on this topic on the net. The net of course says what you say.

Your comments also jogged my memory to my ownadventures with another small ungrounded home. My dad wired the family cabin around 1950. For a vacation at the family cabin in 1993, I brought my new computer. Of course all the cabin's outlets were two-prong (ungrounded system etc.). My computer plug was three prong (grounded et cetera). I called my dad. He had me rig up a little grounding system for the cabin that, while not perfect, was better than nothing. Ultimately the ground ended at a cold water pipe in the cabin.

I think the ungrounded system in this home I am (or was) considering will end up being a dealbreaker for me. The house is one story, with a crawl space. The crawl space is about four feet high in much of it and at least three feet high everywhere. I think: Not bad at all, relatively speaking. I figure new wiring could be installed via the crawl space and fishing through walls to the electrical outlets. But the asking price on the house is too much for the re-wiring I would want done (or would do largely myself, over many months). How much to re-wire around 750 square feet of the house house? I figure $2000 to $10,000. Maybe more given pandemic-related increases in labor and materials? Would the electrician also be obliged to bring other aspects up to code? E.g. per code, is the number of outlets on the interior walls adequate if a re-wiring is done? The house has no outlets on the exterior walls.

I know if I bought it, and some years down the road when I wanted to sell, I do not think I could do so in good conscience without re-wiring the house.

The owner of the home had several offers. In this curious housing market, I think there's a buyer out there who would accept the wiring as is. I am not sure that buyer is myself.

[trader_4]

My parent's house was built in that era. It had the black cable that had some kind of more cloth like look to it, no ground. That's probably what's there and someone incorrectly put in grounded outlets that are not grounded. And those too solutions are correct. Obviously the GFCI is way less expensive and provides better shock protection.

[trader_4]

You can get whole house surge protection by installing one at the panel. Make sure the incoming cable is properly grounded where it enters the house. With that you have pretty good surge protection for the whole house. Point of use surge protectors for TVs, etc that are connected to both would provide some additional protection by clamping. If you did that, you'd probably have better surge protection than most homes in America with grounded receptacles. I could certainly sell a house with existing wiring that's the old ungrounded, with no problems. People are selling wire and tube homes. Put a GFCI on the first receptacle and you have protection against electrocution that is better than a grounded receptacle.

[gfretwell]

Professionally rewiring a house is up in the thousands depending on how extensively you want it rewired. If you just added a ground to the receptacles that you would be regularly be plugging 3 wire appliances into it might not be horrible. There is a bit of a loophole in the code that would allow just running a grounding wire to a box as remediation for a missing ground. It does need to be protected from physical damage where exposed. I have seen inspectors speculate about methods but I have never seen it done myself. The one that sounded most interesting was running a

6ga to bus bars where individual 12 or 14 ga forked off to the boxes you wanted grounded.

[bud--]

Plug-in surge protectors will work in that they clamp the voltage between the wires. They don't primarily work by 'grounding' the surge. If there are signal wires to the computer it likely is a bad idea. Should be downstream from a GFCI. If computer is 2 wire it works a lot easier.

Depending on details it may have been code compliant. These days you can't use a water pipe.

You may understand the problem better than other buyers. Credit the cabin.

Adding just a ground is a PITA also, but likely easier that rewiring receptacles, which IMHO is not real easy.

Finding the 1st receptacle on a circuit may or may not be easy. GFCI breakers are spendy (if available for your panel) but may be cheaper if your time is worth something (if an inspector doesn't want AFCIs).

I don't believe the NEC requires up to current code. Other regulations may, like if the cost is high enough. The NEC is also getting annoying about adding AFCI protection to existing wiring (requirements may be more than just the replaced receptacle). Also if 'child-proof' (and some other kinds of receptacles) are required for new construction they are required for replacements.

============================== What do you call the stuff described by trader - "it had the black cable that had some kind of more cloth like look to it, no ground." Probably also paper between the wires and sheath. I may like K&T better than that stuff.

[gfretwell]

Probably easier to just add grounded circuits and put GFCIs on the existing. A 1950 house doesn't have nearly enough outlets. You might be looking at a panel upgrade too if it has fuses or "unobtainium" breakers. It depends on how much the OP wants to do. OTOH If you strategically place some new grounded outlets you might find everything else has a 2 prong plug anyway.

[gfretwell]

It was more of a code exercise amongst bored inspectors than something we saw.

The GFCI breakers for the handful of general lighting circuits a 1950 house has would be a pimple on the job of replacing a 70 year old panel. That would me my first concern. If the OP is still thinking about buying the place he should get a few proposals from ECs as to what it takes to make this place safe and take that to the seller.

[Elle N]

Trader_4, gfre, Bud and Bob F, thank you for the further thoughts and expertise. I backed out of the house, partly because of the wiring. It had other problems and I just was not pleased (for now) running around getting estimates to figure out the credits I wanted. It was not that bad a house at all; just a re-hab that needed a bit more work here and there (apart from the wiring). I do realize that if I want one of these otherwise solid 1950s era homes, I am going to have to compromise some. My realtor (truly tactfully) elaborated and said I was likely going to have to compromise on this point or start looking at new developments. For me, said new developments may be HOA-controlled. Which is undesirable. Compromise will be key.

Installing the GFCI outlets is supposed to call for all manner of labeling of outlets, right? Technically speaking.

If I love the next home and the only problem (for me) is a 1950s era ungrounded system, but the next home has a crawl space that is bearable or maybe a basement, I will make it work. Though knowing me, one by one, open breaker by open breaker, i will fish wires through walls and re-wire to a grounded system. For work inside the breaker panel, I may hire an electrician, unless there is a master breaker? Work inside the panel is perhaps not a big deal to many here, but it is new to me. I do not want to be stupid.

The panels in these homes are consistently upgraded ones.

Bob, credit to my dad as much as the cabin. I wish he still had his mind so he could help me process all the information here. I am blessed by all the education he gave me over the years, with an enormous heap of 'safety first. You're going to kill yourself if you don't do ____.'

[angelica...]

Perhaps you're just a wee bit too picky. Our 1947 house had several ungrounded outlets where some fool installed three-prong receptacles. We just make sure not to use those for anything but lamps.

Anyplace we wanted to plug in anything that needs to be grounded, he ran a wire from the outlet to a suitable ground. In one or two cases, a green wire runs down the wall, behind the baseboard, and on to its destination. Perhaps it's not code, but it's good enough for me to trust it.

Cindy Hamilton

[Clare Snyder]

1st generation "romex". Nasty dirty stuff to work with - even on simple jobs. My dad used to come home from work black from end to end, particularly when he was using the stuff on rural electrification jobs where he was pulling it into 50-100 year old buildings

[Marilyn Manson]

Why not swap out the first receptacle in the branch to a GFCI and at least gain the "human" protection that it will provide?

That's what I've done throughout the house, except when I pulled a new, grounded circuit. GFCI protected 3 prong receptacles, all of which show an open ground.

[Marilyn Manson]

It's not exactly "all manner of labeling". It merely some simple labeling that makes sense.

One label on the ungrounded GFCI: ?No Equipment Ground.? Two labels on any downstream ungrounded grounding-type receptacle(s): ?GFCI Protected? and ?No Equipment Ground.?

Technically speaking.

[gfretwell]

The biggest problem with installing GFCI receptacles is the skimpy boxes you usually find in old houses. Although technically they "fit" A GFCI actually uses a lot more space than the "2 wire size" allowance calls for. The breakers cost more but if the panel takes them, it is a whole lot easier.

[trader_4]

But also typically less convenient to reset when one trips.

[Marilyn Manson]

I can't speak to your use of the word "typically" since I only know my environment, but...

Most of the GFCI's I installed so that I could install downstream 3 prong receptacles are behind couches, beds, dressers, etc. Not by choice, that's just where the first receptacle in the branches are.

On a whole, GFCI breakers would be easier to reset. A longer walk, but no furniture to move.

[gfretwell]

The GFCI might not fit in the boxes they used in those days without seriously compacting the conductors. The "fill" deduction for devices used to be one conductor, now it's 2 (since 1990) and that still might not be enough for something big like a GFCI. My code books only go back to 68 so I am not sure what the code said in 47 (likely the one used for a 1950 house) but I know boxes were usually pretty small in those old houses.

[gfretwell]

I looked and the language in the 68 code was put there in 56 but it was still one deduction for each device, not 2 as was added in 1990. I still don't know when fill and devices was first addressed.

[gfretwell]

I think it was the 2020 or 2017 code that said GFCIs need to be "readily accessible" but that really just addresses things that you need a ladder to get to. We have no control over where customers put furniture. I do agree, the placement of receptacles does make them end up in hard to get to places once the furniture is put in. When I am building in my house I don't use the 12' rule as a guide, only a minimum. I try to put receptacles where they won't be covered and that is not going to be in the center of a long wall like most builders do.