Good question. My own inclination would be to replace that dedicated duplex
sump pump outlet with a single twist lock outlet and plug so that if someone
decided to use that outlet for something else, it would be incompatible with
normal plugs. Whether they would remember to reconnect the twist lock plug
to the outlet after discovering that fact is anyone's guess. (-:
I am not sure I understand your comment. Twist locks, in my experience, can
be used for both 110 and 220v applications. I see them listed for 110v use:
Leviton 2311 Locking Plug, 20A, 125V, L5-20P, 2P3W
Whether or not the NEC approves of them for 120v applications is another
story I am not able to comment on other than I use them in several places in
my house and as I recall, they passed inspection (quite some time ago).
I made the suggestion re: twist locks to specifically deal with someone who
might unplug the sump pump to use for say a vacuum cleaner and then forgets
to reconnect the sump. Having once had a cleaning lady who plugged a 10A
cannister vac into a UPS outlet, there's merit in preventing people from
doing things like that. (-:
Or, as I reread what you wrote, are you saying that a 240v pump obviates the
need for a GFCI?
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 07:43:44 -0500, "Robert Green"
There are specific twist lock configurations for each combination of
voltage and current, all having specific NEMA configuration numbers
which I included in my original recommendation - so yes, twist locks
ARE allowed by the NEC for 120 volt use.
OK - I got it. Thanks for the reply. I would (and do) use twist-locks on
all 240v gear and the 120v outlets that are ceiling mounted and power
specific items (not necessarily dedicated but items like a radial arm saw).
FWIW, I saw my first twist lock connector on an old portable tube radio
circa 1940 my dad had that had two different types of batteries and came in
a folding wood case. He had rigged up some sort of AC power for the unit
using a twist-lock connector which kind of negated its portability. As I
recall the price of the high voltage battery made operating the unit an
expensive proposition. Replaced many years later by one of the first Sony
shirt-pocket portable AM radios powered by a more affordable 9vdc cell.
I really don't give a damn if it's "required" - I don't want the sump
pump disabled due to the GFCI tripping. If it came down to it I'd
temporarily install a GFCI receptacle for an "inspection" then remove
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)
I might have agreed with you ten years ago when GFCI devices were still
"growing up." I had a lot of nuisance trips using some Slater GFCI's I got
at Hechinger's (George should know them!).
I've got Leviton 20A GFCI's just about everywhere and haven't had one trip
since the gardener tried to repair the extension cord he had just
hedge-clippered in half with a pen-knife and masking tape. Needless to say
he failed his audition . . .
I can see the sump being on a non-GFCI outlet when no one's home. However,
the combination of water, electricity and many times sloppy Chinese pump
manufacturing still make me want the protection of a GFCI on anything that
contacts groundwater. I would run it a long time "under test" to make sure
I could trust it if we were away on vacation.
Everyone knows it's ground-hole pointed south to take advantage of the
coriolis effect, at least in the northern hemisphere. Helps the electrons
drain more quickly. (-: My Monster Cable sales rep told me! <sarcasm alert>
On a serious note, I assume GFCI's have saved *some* lives but I've yet to
come up with a site that even hazards a guess how many lives have been
saved. One site said "countless" and that might be the closest estimate
because it seems no one has counted them. Even harder to come by seem to be
any figures relating the number of nuisance trips one can expect. My own
anecdotal evidence strongly suggests nuisance trips are much reduced from
GFCI designs of ten years ago, but it's just one data point. Where's Danny
D? If anyone could find those numbers, I'd bet on him. I seem to recall
others here making similar observations about decreasing nuisance trip
I suspect that the NEC has been changed to reflect the better designs of
modern GFCIs as the exceptions to where they are not needed seem to be
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:13:18 -0500, "Robert Green"
I have seen lots of conversation about this but there is no actual
code language about it. On argument is if the ground is up and the
cover comes loose it will hit the ground pin but that is not enough to
drive a code change.
There also does not seem to be any consensus of how the cord should
hang (pin up or down ref the direction of the cord on a flat plug) I
have examples of both here.
The only thing that is somewhat a convention is that switched
receptacles are installed in the opposite orientation from the
unswitched ones. That makes sense as long as the user understands it.
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:34:15 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
And pretty difficult to do with the common"around here anyway)
practice of "splitting" an outlet and switching only one half -
allowing you yo use the outlet for something that stays on as well as
a lamp you switch - all in the same box.
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 13:45:24 -0500, email@example.com wrote:
If the receptacle is inverted you would still see it was different
than the rest, whether that is "half hot" or the whole thing.
Then the question is which one do you switch?
I like the logic that the top is hot and the bottom switched since
that will usually be the lamp you don't move around and the top is
available for portable equipment.
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 10:19:47 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
It would APPEAR they are intended to be installd ground down, as the
embossed printing in the plastic front is right side up in that
Here in Ontario I would venture to guess over 90% are installed U
down, neutral left.
It is still a "dedicated circuit" but to be 100% legal I would
install twist-lock receptacles and plugs to make it clear it is
DEDICATED to the specialized equipment with the matching plugs.
(assuming there are no other outlets or devices on the circuit)
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 00:20:09 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I am not sure about what happens in the Great White North but in the
US those "dedicated outlet" exceptions are all gone and have been for
the last 3 cycles. The only exceptions now are for "ice melting
equipment" outside and alarm systems inside (basements crawl spaces
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 01:02:20 -0500, email@example.com wrote:
They also only apply to "new construction". If the sump pump was
there and wired before the exemptions dissappeared the exemption still
stands - and doing as I suggested WILL pass a "condition inspection"
I just had a "condition inspection", called an "e-safe" for insurance
purposes here last month, and up here they have complicated things.
The ESA (Electrical safety Authority)enforces the common electrical
code, which would grandfather GFCI and AF requirements, but the new
e-safe regulations are implemented under the CSA (Canadian Standards
Association) which over-rides the code and requires GFCI for all
outlets within 6 feet of a faucet or sink and all exterior outlets
under something like 8 feet (2.5 meters) from the ground.
Unfinished basements and attached garages (not sure about detatched
since I don't have one) do not require GFCI and nor do "dedicated
outlets" for refrigerators and other devices - which do not need to be
So, on one circuit with a bathroom outlet, a refrigerator and an
outdoor outlet, there are 2 GFCI outlets and one standard outlet on
the same circuit.
This passed E-Safe inspection in November (and yes, I did need to pull
a permit to install the GFCI outlets)
Up here ANY work on aluminum wire, including like for like
replacements of switches, outlets, and luminaires requires a permit.
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