Solder or crimp ??

[Ashton Crusher]

Depending on what's needed, crimping is almost always going to be faster and cheaper for a great many applications and will be "good enough" for the life needed.

[Fred McKenzie]

You are suggesting that soldering, although more time consuming and expensive, would be better for longer-life applications.

Back in the early 60s, I worked with an engineer that needed to determine which type of connection would be best for use in a high-reliability military system.

Half of several connector sets were soldered, half were crimped. This included using smaller gauge wire in some pins, folding the wire for crimping.

My job was to monitor the testing, which included vibration, shock, temperature cycling, humidity cycling and salt spray.

As I recall, there were numerous failures of the soldered connections. The only crimp failures were where smaller gauge wire was used.

Fred

[philoÂÂ]

Sure thing...plus for low current I don't think solder vs crimp is going to make much difference.

[Stormin Mormon]

When I was a toddler, I lived in a wooden crib with plastic covers on the rails. Makes me wonder if some kind of plastic cover can be made for high potential bus bars? Could be either cut to length, or some thing. Would make the setup less likely to attract metal tools.

Since the bars are a predictable size, a plastic cover could be snapped on.

[philoÂÂ]

Insulated "shrouds" are now used on all industrial batteries (forklift)...but they weren't many years ago.

OTOH: Stationary batteries AFAIK do not have them...and now that you mention it, would be a darn good idea.

Of course no one but trained personnel would normally be allowed near a stationary battery setup and with a motive power (forklift) battery...access would not be restricted.

[krw]

It won't help if the crimp was right to begin with.

The wire breaks, instead.

[krw]

If the connector is designed to be crimped and buried, solder isn't going to help. It often will cause problems, though. Use connectors the way they were designed to be used and you will have fewer problems. ...but I'm sure you think you know better than the manufacturer.

[bob haller]

for high current crip connections life depends on the type of terminal used...

copper ring terminals using screw to the whatever like a switch , is much better than steel or alunimum spade slide on connectors.....

the poorer the connection causes resistance which heats the connection, which increase the resistance and before you know it the wole mess overheats and the connection opens. a little smoke gets lots of attention.

this occurs all the time on the machines i service for a living. I carry a roll of 14 gauge wire for splicing, and keep some 12 gauge for selected locations

[RobertMacy]

I've addressed this over and over...Crimp is better than solder:

Years ago when I was involved in the security industry, I worked with alarm installers who pulled wire, made connections, and HAD the years of experience of PRACTICAL installs. They made the comment to me that crimp is the BEST connection, and solder will tend to fail, and definitely NEVER solder a crimp connection because it loses its 'goodness'.

Sadly, being an arrogant youth and being skilled at soldering, having a degree from Stanford, and jsut generally knowing 'I' knew better; I didn't listen. So, when I installed my security system in my home, I, of course, soldered the connections. I wrapped wires a good one inch with at least 5 twists and flowed the solder on beautifully - classic high qaulity workmanship. Ten years later, a false alarm, reset no problem. month later another false alarm, reset too, and more and more often until once a week a false alarm. I went around and resoldered all my connections and guess what no more false alarms for you guessed it another ten years. ...From this experience, I learned a lot of respect for people who may not have degrees, but have to do the work everyday, and learn from THEIR experiences.

Also, look at the phone company. they don't solder, they also use mechanical pressure to maintain contact. After all, that is ALL soldering does. It maintains some semblance of 'sealing' and mechanically constraining the connection you made by simply twisting two wires together.

CONCLUSION: *IF* you want a reliable connection to last for years, CRIMP!!! and follow the directions.

Plus, and this can get really, really bad. If your soldered connection is passing power and starts to fail, you guessed it!, it will unsolder itself for you! Seen that, too.

[RobertMacy]

Not good idea to solder a crimped connector. The heat usually relaxes the pressure of the crimp nnd the advantage of the crimp is lost.

[gregz]

In the mean time, I'll fix bad crimps by soldering.

Greg

[RobertMacy]

If you looked at crimp vs solder over the whole spectrum, you'd find the soldered connection to become 'noisy' with time. ...having variable resistance. Not too noticeable if you're powering a motor, because who cares if the connection comes and goes once in a while?

[Ashton Crusher]

No matter how perfect the crimp is it won't keep moisture out of the joint area. The edges of the metals are exposed, the corrosion starts there and works it's way back eating away at the metals. Just look at all the corroded battery cables that are crimped into the battery clamps, eventually the stuff corrodes away.

I've had far far more failed crimps from corrosion in exposed to weather areas then wires breaks from any cause. In fact, the only wire breaks I've had were on crimped and NOT soldered connections. I've never had a crimped AND soldered connection fail. YMMV.

[Ashton Crusher]

You said crimps form a moisture tight seal. They don't. That's why no one but an idiot would crimp a wire and rely on your claim that it's suddenly become moisture tight.

[Ashton Crusher]

I said "depending on what's needed". I made no claim that soldering was always better nor that crimping was always better, only that crimping is faster and IF conditions are such that crimping will last the design life it's likely that manufacturers will crimp rather then solder. Same as why production electricians will shove the wires into the spring clip holes on home electrical outlets instead of taking the time to wrap the wire dinner the screw and tighten it. Same reason many things are pop-riveted instead of brazed, and on and on.

[RobertMacy]

Didn't know we were comparing bad crimps to bad soldering. Yes, as my example showed, soldering works very well ...for a while.

[gregz]

My guess, a crimp would work best on a single wire. Little strands do not get pinched together enough inside the bundle, and corrosion keeps wicking through. I never saw a wire wrap fail, but I never saw them used in poor environment. I've crimped really small contacts where soldering would take too long, and be impossible to prevent wicking. The crimpers also sometimes cost several hundred dollars. I'll admit, sometimes crimps are better. There is the other case, often on home appliances. The wires and crimps, and slide on connectors, get warm, then hotter, then literally burn off. The crimp will fail as well as turning the slide on contacts, brittle falling apart.

Greg

[The Daring Dufas]

I only solder them when they really need it. Otherwise, I use my ratcheting crimp tool and crimp the insulated connection and cable grip. The more expensive connectors have a metal sleeve under the cable grip insulation. ^_^

TDD

[Irreverent Maximus]

Why not good crimps? :-)

As an aside. Some terminals will have their listing voided if soldered. The air flow in the terminal is part of the cooling allowing for the rated ampacity. These terminals are usually aluminum or a crappy alloy. If possible, always get terminals rated for 90 degree C.

People who find faulty crimps usually found someone who used the wrong tool for the job. Those crappy wire stripper/crimper all in one tools with the crimp section toward the handle are pure junk. I prefer, as an all in one, a dedicated multi crimper from Klein. Long handles and you can really bear down on the terminal. Forward section is multi-gauge for insulated, and the rear section is for multi-gauge non-insulated.

[Irreverent Maximus]

Sounds more like operator error. 33+ is a viable option, or sealing heatshrink. Your point is no different than complaining about terminal blocks that corroded.