I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?
One says Toyota, the other says Lexus. Could be the same but you pay for the single versus bulk pack?
What is the price at a typucal auto parts store?
Good point. Neither says my car, a Solara, but I figured 3.3L and the year 2005 was enough. OTOH, in a video I watched, he bought the wrong one, it was too long. I'd have to watch it again to see if he made a big mistake, a poor assumption, or if they sent him the wrong thing. (He bought another one later in the video.)
Good question. Autozone for my car has
Duralast Multi Pack Coil On Plug Ignition Premium Replacement Ignition Coil 6 Pack C1452-6
for $357. Wow. Not offered singly.
BTW, I can't even get at the rear 3 ignition coils without taking out the intake manifold and lots of little things.
It runs smoothly, as nice as ever afaict. Has plenty of acceleration and power.
I erased the codes (cyls 1, 2, and random) and I'll wait to see if they come back. (of course, they will.)
Your links shows $32 each. Denso is a quality brand at a good price point. [I go Denso although I have found generic Chinese equally useful.] If you are replacing a COP in the rear bank which requires removal of the intake manifold, replace all 3.
The first one does, but it was $70 yesterday! (It shows as marked down from that 70 and if you were unlucky enough to buy it yesterday, that's what they charged! Do you think any webpage is smart enough to charge more the first time you look at it and then lower the price a day later? That's what a live salesman might do, and you could write software to do it, I guess just using cookies would be enough, but I've never noticed a substantial reduction in price before after only a day or two.)
The second one shows that price too, and it was that same price yesterday.
Makes sense.
Without a garage and another car and more energy than I have these days, I don't think I can remove the intake manifold and also get it back on. (I'm pretty sure I can do the first part.)
I have (or had**) a misfire on cylinder 1 and 2 out of 6, plus a random misfire, but iiuc it could be the injector, the injector circuit, or a couple less likely things (compression, fuel pressure).
**I just discovered this yesterday. I cleared those codes this morning but haven't gone anywhere since. They're just about sure to re-apperar, I assume. It runs smoothly, as nice as ever. Has plenty of acceleration and power.**I watched this video
(I'd like to do something fairly big at least once. I'd like to rebuild an engine but I'll never do that.)
Chasing the o2 sensor problem and coil problem on the same car???
99.999% chance it is neither the coil OR the O2 sensor. You most likely have a small vacuum leak somewhere. Take it to a real mechanic and save yourelf a lot of aggravation AND money. Your local Toyota dealer has likely dealt with exactly the same problem before and will know EXACTLY where to look for the problem and how to fix it. Even a GOOD independent will at least know how to troubleshoot it even if he's never seen the exact issue before.
Denso is Toyota OEM - I believe majority or wholly owned by Toyota.
Pick up a junk lawnmower and rebuild it if you want "the experience" or "bragging rights"
That combination of problems really scared me last night, and I had just about given in and was going to take it somewhere, until I thought, It's gonna cost me 1000 dollars or more.
The P0171 and P0174 started last year and the misfire problem, P0300, P0301, P0302**, I only learned about yesterday. Last year, for the lean mixture, I clenaed the MAF sensor with MAF Sensor Cleaner, replaced the MAF sensor, replaced the PCV valve, inspected the air cleaner (which was very clean), looked at length for vacuum leaks, inspected that big plastic pipe from air cleanner to the next boxy thing, and maybe something else.
**Actually, the Maintenannce dash light went on about 4 months ago, but I didn't read the codes again at that time. Are the misfires really going to damage my engine like one webpage said? So far it seems to run the same.I didn't check the fuel pump or filter or injectors, but the car had and has loads of power and acceleration. Its only bad symptom is that it stumbles a little as I leave a stop sign. But if I handle my foot just right and don't try to get a jack-rabbit start, I can even avoid that. Still, it's definitely a problem.
I figured since it has so much power and other-than-from-stopped easy acceleration, it's not the fuel pump or filter or injectors. ?? And there is no nipple on this car to connect a fuel pressure gauge.
That left the O2 sensors but I was in idiot mode and thought I should be suspecting the downstream sensors which are both hard to replace without a lift or at least ramps on flat ground. I read the meterial again and IIUC it's the upstream sensors that matter here, and one of those is easy to change. (The rear one is behind the engine, have to remove the intake manifold etc. I think. I am scared to even start that.)
OTOH, since it's both banks, maybe there is some common cause but unrelated to banks. OT3H, since both sensors are original and were 15 years old, maybe they both wore out.
When this problem first started, I spend a lot of time looking for a vacuum leak. I checked every hose and hose connection. They were all firm and none were brittle. Then I didn't want to spray brake cleaner like was suggested, so went around with an unlit but open propane torch, sticking it everywhere I could find and waiting for the idle speed to increase. It never did.
Just now I read that brake cleaner doesn't leave residue like I thought it did. Should I start again looking for vacuum leaks with brake cleaner?
Is there something else to do?
I don't want to waste money, but I like wasting aggravation. That's one way to learn, and to learn without ever forgetting. And the weather has just started to be beautiful. Time spent working outside on the car, even if you don't fix it, has to be better for your health and your mood than time spent in front of a PC monitor.
That's a good idea, except, on the previous Toyota, after I replaced the broken right front axle, broken brake rotor, broken rim, and one related part that I forget, I took it to the local Toyota for a wheel alignment and they tried to cheat me. They claimed that CV boots on BOTH sides needed replacing. After they wrote this, I jacked the left side up and went over that side carefully and couldln't find even a crack, let alone a rip, and the right side was new with only 30 miles on it.
Plus they said I had a substantial oil leak, even though I never or almost never had to add oil (even afterwards) and I think they had a couple other complaints which didn't ring true.
Tbey've been bought out since then, but I have no special reason to think they are any more honest. They probably kept the same mechanics mostly and if they still get incentives for selling repairs, whoever lied to me last time will still lie to me.
And they have it set up so you don't even see the mechanic or the shop. You take the car to a biggg carport, get out, and some auto-jockey drives it around to the other side of the building to a shop with 20 or more bigg bays. So someone with compunctions who might not be able to lie to my face has it easier; he only has to lie to a piece of paper.
What should I do?
That's a possibility, but I still want to try myself. I think because I've had fewer home or car repairs needed, until this one, and I spend my time fiddling with Windows instead of something physical, I've gained weight.
A missfire can cause your 171 and 174 codes. A misfire allows unused oxygen (along with unburned fuel) into the exhaust - and particularly if it is an injector problem causing the miss meaning no extra fuel, the oxygen sensor legitimately sees a lean mixture.
You need to be able to read the snapshot data to know what was happeneing when the sensor read lean - what was engine temperature, rpm, load, engine speed, etc. Then do the same for the misfire code and you can pretty much relate the two or rule them out.
Erasing the codes also shuts off the "monitors" and untill the monitors reset you won't get a code - even IF you hve a problem.
I've even seen an angine run "pig rich" because of a vacuum leak or a bad injector as the computer richens the mixture to try to correct what it sees as a lean mixture - it richens the good cyls excessively trying to compensate for the one lean one.
Intermittent misfires are OFTEN flakey vacuum leaks.
The danger of ignoring the misfire for an extended period would be damage to the catalytic converter. If it recurs, don't drive too long without fixing the problem.
If the bad COP if the front bank, probably very easy to replace. There is possibly a YouTube on your specific motor detailing how to get to the rear bank. I don't know if the YouTube link you provided is your model. You can judge whether you have the skills. I have always reused the gaskets but it would be good to have a fresh set if the old ones don't look/feel perfect. The other point that is sometimes overlooked: the manifold is plastic and you need a torque wrench with a low setting to make sure that you do not over-tighten when you reassemble. The plastic manifold can crack or distort if you don't follow an alternating pattern or if you use excess force. The amount of torque is surprisingly low.
Every time I'm faced with an expensive repair like that, I remind myself that it's cheaper than a new car.
Even $1000 every single year is cheaper than a new car.
Cindy Hamilton
Great advice for a Ford or Toyota, not so much for a Chrysler K-car.
Ah. I'm not foolish enough to buy anything from the Big 3. I'm from Detroit.
My 2004 Toyota Highlander is going strong.
Cindy Hamilton
I never used one, but there are fog/smoke generators that you can hook up that pump smoke into the system and you can see if any comes out. I've read of people using fog machines that are made for dance floors and such. Years ago when I looked I think you could find them on Ebay for maybe less than $100. Then you'd have to make up some plumbing to pipe it in.
It's hard to find vacuum leaks because the hoses go all over the place and the engine compartment is packed, you can't easily even see them all, others go into the cabin, to the tranny, etc.
A friend of mine had a Honda CRV, probably had 200K miles on it. It had an intermittent problem with the codes indicating that the cat converter was the likely culprit. I helped him get it through inspection once by resetting the codes and when reset they generally stayed OK for months. He does mostly highlway, long 600 mile trips to rack up the mileage, so the car was in overall great shape. I looked up the cost of a new cat for it and it was maybe $350, plus labor of course. But he kept driving it, then it was about due for another inspection. So, I told him he should either get the cat replaced or I could reset it for him again and it would probably remain OK for awhile again so he could get through inspection. The cat code problem mostly happened on his long drives, not when he was doing local driving anyway. And in NJ I think if the total repairs are more than $700, you get an exemption and don't have to even fix it. But he kept obsessing about this perceived awful cat problem
Next when he was on his way up to NJ from NC and had been having trouble starting the car before he left and I think on the way. He stopped by here and I determined his battery was old and kaput. I recommended that he not continue the remaining 75 miles because he could get stuck on the Parkway, where a tow is expensive because they only let certain companies do it. I convinced him to buy a new battery, so we found a good deal for about $100, I went and picked it up and put it in for him.
What's he do next? He took it to Honda for an oil change and they sold him a new FIT and gave him a whopping $1000 trade in for the CRV including the new battery that was a day old. That car was probably worth 4 times that. He could have paid $600 or so for a cat replacement at an non-dealer repair shop and gotten another 100K miles out of it. And the FIT is a small shit box compared to the CRV.
With 200,000 miles on a car maybe he just wanted a new one. I doubt I would go with the FIT if I was doing long trips. A few years back I traded in a Camry that was 10 years old and only had about 40,000 miles on it. Just wanted a new one and at the time it was
0 % finance . So by leaving the money in the IRA and financing it for 7 years I made a few more thousand. This may be the last car I buy at my age no more than I drive in a year.They probably did not even allow him $ 1000 for the trade, just reworked the numbers to make it look that way.
I may give a more relevant answer later, but this is relevant to your last 2 lines.
When my brother graduated medical school he moved to Brooklyn and bought a new '65 pontiac which came with a 2-year warranty. When he drove, and after he went to Viet Nam and gave me the car, when I drove too, we couldn't pull away from a stop without stumbling. Car was only 3 or 4 years old. Finally I just happened to be up on the fender looking down and 1) I saw the vacuum hose to the distributor was completely missing. At both ends. From the side, the view of both locations was obstructed.
After it was replaced, all was fine. I wonder how much dirt got sucked in that tube over 4 years. I wonder if they left the hose off when they made the car**, or if the dealer removed it. (It had other problems and had been to the dealer many times. By the time I got to Brooklyn 7 years after he bought the car, the dealer, Alpine Motors, was out of business.
**2) Without AC and they had failed to connect the fresh air doors in the L and R kickpanels to the controls that opened them. They were always closed. 3) They had mounted the steering wheel upside down so that turn signals turned off if you turned the wheel 90^*** and then let it go back to 75 or 80^. ***Instead of 270^ like all other cars. When I figured this out, I wanted to just turn the steering wheel upside down but the way the handgrips on the wheel were designed, that would have but them between 3 and 4:30 and between 7:30 and 9. AFAIK, no one holds the wheel like that, and even though you don't have to hold the wheel at the designated hand grips, it would look funny. All I had to do was drill another hole through the steering wheel "hub", a piece of metal an inch thick, and everything was good again, but how did they make these mistakes. Did the original assembler put the steering wheel on upside down because it looked better to him that way, just as it did to me (and he wouldn't know it would mess up the turn signal)? 4) The car wouldn't start if you left the lights on too long with the engine not running. He had it into the dealer several times for that. They said they replaced the battery, the starter, and the alternator two times each. Not sure about the regulator. Still didn't help. I only spent a couple short visits with him but once the car wouldn't start for us right in midtown NYC. After the two year warranty was up, they said, "[yeah we never fixed it, but] the warranty has expired."After I got the car I decided the battery had been ruined so I took it to Sears (very big in Chicago) for a new battery and the mechanic who would put it in said, Do you want our free 788-part multi-check? and I said, I really just need a battery. And he said, "it's free". I don't like to argue so I said Okay. And it took him less than 5 minutes to find the problem the dealer couldn't find in 2 years. The connection of the battery cable at the starter motor would get "dirty". In my experience only when I forgot and left the lights on, even for 2 hours.
He took it apart and cleaned it, but later I found that even with good clothes on, I could reach under the car, find the cable and rotate it around the bolt, probably just in one direction, and that was enough to make the car start.
There must have been a permanent solution, a cable with different kind of connection at the end?? But although I saw other cables for sale, none said anything about being different or corroding less or anything, so iirc I bought a buzzer that buzzed if I left the lights on and that pretty much solved it. (though once early on it had started then stalled 10 minutes later just as I was about to get on Lake Shore Drive. I'm glad it didn't stall on that busy road.)
In the past, I twice replaced a perfectly good car for no real reason other than I was tired of what I was driving.
My wife noted that I had done the same thing in high school- only with girlfriends!
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