Sheetrock question

[Art]

I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I have a disagreement. A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. Most will be covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. After looking at his sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper. I called this to his attention and he said he does it on purpose to get a better finishing job. I told him that the paper is not supposed to be pierced but he strongly disagreed. I believe that the paper is needed to hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. I was once told by a sheetrock guy that loose paper was a big cause of nail pops. In any case, most of the sheetrock will be covered with Corian attached by silicone glue so I can probably let this go but I wanted to get other opinions. This isn't really a money argument. He did something very smart on another part of the job saving me tons of money so if I decided to make him re-do it I will pay him for the time and sheetrock. Just want it done right. Thanks.

[Mikepier]

All the sheetrock jobs I've done has the nail or screw slightly embedded into the sheetrock for a better mud job.

[aemeijers]

The screw is supposed to dimple the paper, but not go through it. It takes a well calibrated clutch on the screw shooter, and enough practice to know when to let off the trigger, and how hard to lean. (I'm not very good at it.) If they oversink one, they are supposed to back it out or drive it deeper, and put another one an inch away. Yes, that ragged paper edge has a nasty habit of coming up through the mud. On a wall that vibrates a lot, the screw in the white layer won't hold as well as the one that has paper under it. One or two isn't a big deal, but if he did all of them that way, somebody taught him wrong. Why are you bothering to mud under the Corian? Hope you at least used greenboard. These days, I'd be tempted to use the non-paper-skinned rock, in a wet room, to avoid mold.

-- aem sends..

[David Nebenzahl]

On 2/8/2009 5:05 PM Art spake thus:

From the horse's mouth:

Space screws maximum of 12" apart on ceilings, 16" on walls and at least 3/8" from ends and edges of panels. Sink screws to just below the panel surface, leaving the paper intact.

(javascript:pdf_popUp('/USG_Marketing_Content/usg.com/web_files/Documents/Installation_and_Appl_Guides/Shtrkgypsum_panel_and_joint_treatment-installation_guide.pdf','Sheetrock Gypsum Panel and Joint Treatment Installation Guide J371') from the USG website.)

[MiamiCuse]

What are non-paper-skinned rock? Care to share a link?

Thanks,

MC

[Art]

We actually used a new purple water resistant board that is supposed to be mold resistent thru out and not just the paper. The claims for this board and the claims for the new paper free board appeared to be identical. As for mudding behind the corrian, Corrian installer said most contractors mud it... probably to adjust level and squareness.

[Bob M.]

Didn't he use -screws-? How are screws going to pop out?

[David Nebenzahl]

On 2/8/2009 5:57 PM Bob M. spake thus:

Hate to be the one to tell you this, but you ought to re-read the original post.

And yes, screws can pop out as well. In fact, may be more likely with screws than with nails.

[Robert Neville]

Also known as hardieboard or cement board.

There are other brands as well.

[Art]

I think he is talking about a new non paper sheetrock like material that has no cellulose. It is a different product than cement board.

[Art]

If you pierce the paper, it is my understanding that it can cause 2 problems. The loose paper above the screw can let the mud above it pop out. Nail pops are not necessarily a nail popping out. Loose paper can look the same according to a sheetrock guy I used once in my previous home. Also if a lot of the screws pierce the paper the sheetrock will hang loosely on the stud and if someone leans against it the screwheads can push out the mud.

[BobK207]

[aemeijers]

Check your local Borg. The stuff around here is yellow. Some sort of tyvek or fiberglass or something. On the pricey side, so probably only indicated for damp areas. Don't know the proper name to tell you to Google it. (After my last patching fiasco, I stay out of drywall aisle- it just depresses me. I have lots of skills, but that ain't one of them.)

-- aem sends...

[BobK207]

In my local area, its 8" on the ceiling & 12" on the walls.

Yes, as aemeijers says, "dimple the paper, but not go through it" is the correct procedure.

But it's a lot easier to say & spec than to actually do it.

A similar thing is required for plywood shearwalls ....nails flush w/o breaking the first ply.

The requirements for both materials seem a little contradictory......written by people who dont have to do it.

cheers Bob

[aemeijers]

No, this is something different- still a gypsum core, but a different skin, so mold has nowhere to grow.

-- aem sends...

[Robert Neville]

Same here. Although I can put the stuff up and with a certain amount of effort, eventually get it taped an mudded, it is definitely not one of my favorite things to do. Using a damp sponge instead of sanding was one trick that helped.

What I absolutely can't do is get the texture coat right.

Around here, orange peel texture on the walls and a slightly coarser knock down finish on the ceiling is standard, but no matter what I try, I can never match very well.

I've tried the aersol spray stuff, the template sheets and freehand, all to no avail. Very depressing as I've watched guys do it free hand and it turns out perfect - you can't see the patch after painting at all.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 2/8/2009 7:55 PM BobK207 spake thus:

I've run into that one: the neighbor of a friend for who I was putting in a shearwall was dinged by the Berkeley building inspector, who didn't like how deep his nailgun had sunk the nails on his plywood. Had to redo the whole thing. Made me pretty careful ...

[Robert Neville]

I would use greenboard or whatever the current substitute is in the bathroom, but no way in a wet area, even with a hard cover. Just too easy to get a leak that causes trouble.

[aemeijers]

Yes, I should have said 'damp' area. In outright splash zones, gypsum products are contraindicated. Cement board with tile/solid surface or whatever, or one of those formed plastic enclosures with no seams.

-- aem sends...

[BobK207]

Dave-

Please explain your rationale for.....