Run the PEX inside schedule 40 pvc sewer pipe. that way if it ever needs replaced just dig at either end and snake the new line by attaching pulling to the old line.
the work and costs are in the digging this elminates most digging if it ever fails, and provides mechanical protection for the pex......
And your reference that poly won't last a similar amount of time is? It's been on my house, all my neighbors houses for 30 years now and I haven't heard of a single failure. If it doesn't perform well, rather odd it's still approved and used. And I'd also point out that you're comparing something that is relatively new, ie PEX, to something that has been widely used for 30+ years. There have been other new plumbing materials that were thought to be great ideas, where after a couple decades of use, they turned out to have major problems. I'm not saying that PEX wouldn't be perfectly fine, just that until it's been in that kind of application for 30 years, I don't think you have the data that shows it's any better.
On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 16:49:35 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in
Buried 5' !!! Yow! I live in North Alabama, and our frost line is about 14 inches deep; although after this winter that may get redefined.
Any indication of what causes the black poly to fail so often. I've never heard of it failing except at a connection, and that is usually due to settling.
On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 17:36:57 -0400, BenignBodger wrote in
The wall thinning is usually due to acidic water in the pipes or in the surrounding soil.
The township guy who cam to shut off the water said they do a couple of these a week. Our neighbor one side already had the same problem a few years ago.
Perhaps there was a problem with the particular grade of polyethylene pipe that was being used at the time.
Anyway, we were not offered the option of using polyethylene: PEX or copper were the choices, and we're going with PEX.
Perce
5ft. deep at the township's shutoff. Maybe about 3ft. deep where it enters the basement. This is in W. Michigan.
Perce
It is already deteriorating in the OP's water line. Patching it is only a temporary fix.
It has been in use for over 40 years now. Pretty well proven. It is not relatively new IMO, but well established.
The municipal water supply is slightly base here but the surrounding soil is slightly acidic clay. I have the feeling that any sort of reactive material is not the way to go for direct burial, thus the preference for PEX for modern installs (except where set-in-stone code requirements still prevail). At least K-type direct-burial pipe comes with plastic anti-corrosion coating now which should help.
Aluplex can make a much neater install, as you can form bends down to
2 pipe diameters radius, and it holds it's shape, unlike plain PEX. It also uses pressfit fittings which do not require specialized tools, it has a 50 year projected lifespan (compared to 20 for PEX) and it is totally oxygen impervious -For some people, and some installations, this makes AluPEX a worthwhile upgrade over standard PEX.
I didn't say to patch it. I said I don't see anything wrong with using black poly in that application. Just because he's having problems doesn't mean much. If he had problems with PEX, would that make all PEC bad? God knows who made the poly. It could have been a bad lot, bad manufacturer, etc.
PEX tubing sure hasn't been used around here for anywhere near that long. It's only showed up in about the last decade and for water service to the house, I see black poly in new construction. The new construction I've seen isn't using PEX for anything, either. Also, I believe PEX wasn't even allowed by code in some places, eg CA until a few years ago. I'm not saying anything is wrong with PEX. If I was the OP, I'd probably use it too. I'm only saying that I haven't seen any real data that says poly is no good for this application, that PEX is going to last longer, etc. Some failures of any piping in one area, don't really prove anything, unless the actual cause is determined.
run PEX in PVC conduit, for mechanical protection and easy replacement if it ever fails in the future, just dig up each end and install new line of your preference.
the black poly does get brittle with age, but it takes a long time
to save $$$ on this project try finding a local guy with a backhoe to dig the trench. a large part of a plumbers mark up is the excavating.......
I was surprised to find that they are not digging a trench, just digging a hole at each end and using a "missile" (as he put it). Even for copper it would still be the same method. I don't know whether that would work for PVC.
Just talked to a neighbor who's live here a lot longer than we have; he said that a lot of the people around here have had to have their original poly piping replaced. The development is about 45 years old.
The water pressure must have something to do with the failure rate too. Our supply is approx. 80psi, but we installed a pressure reducer in the house to take it down to about 45psi.
Perce
Now I've watched the procedure in action, I wouldn't have called it a "missile": it's a compressed-air-powered procedure: pulsating compressed air forces the "head" through the soil bit by bit until it emerges the other end, then they attach the PEX or copper to the end of the air hose and pull it through.
To use PVC as "conduit" would require digging a trench, they told me. And that would require hand digging around a bunch of other cables and the gas line.
I was surprised to see how shallow the cable company's cable is buried. I could easily have damaged it when working on the sprinkler system if I'd had to do anything at that spot.
Perce
I've had the cable damaged by a turf aerator (plugger) more than once. The cable is just BARELY under the sod.
I've seen that used here to go under driveways, sidewalks, etc. And for those applications, it's even better because more work would be involved. Seems to go pretty fast, but I guess a lot depends on the soil.
Cable company lines here are only a few inches deep in spots too. They use a machine to actually pull them, no trenching involved. They do that for lawn sprinkler poly pipe too. The downside is that at best, it's not very deep and if the soil is really hard in spots the eqpt tends to ride up, so it can wind up only a couple inches underground.
That's how they ran the plastic gas mains and service lines to our houses last fall. Holes on both sides of driveways, holes at the street and at various places in yards, holes at the houses, but not a lot of actual trenches.
The few places where they dug trenches was where they had to follow a curve.
gas company replaced a lot of main lines in our neighborhood.
They snaked a new plastic line thru the old metal mains. Just one hole dug at each homesstreet shut off....
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