yup, sho 'nuff. Crawled up into the attic with a flashlight and a fistful of plant stakes (to mark the location of the ceiling boxes and switch leg drops. There's a LOT of insulation up there.) Found the "original" ceiling box hanging loose but at least covered with a cover plate. My legs were starting to quiver so I'm going to run to the store and get myself a miner's headlight and a big long extension cord and get back at it. And the girl was wondering why I bought a full 250 foot roll of Romex! hah! Now I'm worried that I might run out before I have this all put to rights.
To make matters worse, the wiring wasn't even bored through the ceiling joists but laid on top loose. Come on guys, if you're gonna do it, do it right. I am not totally cool with inadvertantly stepping on 60 year old cables that are concealed under a mess of insulation.
I have a plan, but I still need to locate the feed to the master bedroom so I don't kill that while trying to fix the other side of the house. Good times.
Unless there is a floor in the attic running them on top is the way it is done...Bring a small piece of plywood up with you to work on....Makes it MUCH easier on the legs and feet.....Sounds like you're having fun....BTDT got the t-shirt....LOL...
I have one of those and also a name brand one. I must say though that the fit-and-finish on the HF one is not as nice. The steel is rougher, the cat's paw end is not as sharp for catching nails with small heads, the pry bar end is not as nicely tapered, etc...
Hoo boy... today I started off by hanging a string of construction lights in my attic (at some point I'd like a keyed lampholder up there permanently wired, but I can't exactly do that yet) and putting everything "mission critical" on the 2nd floor on extension cords to an unused A/C recep. I replaced three ceiling boxes, two of 'em with fan rated boxes (two small bedrooms) and one I just moved up higher and added an extension ring (small hallway.) Pulled a new 14/2 romex up into the attic from the recep that is fed by the breaker box (homerun is BX so I didn't replace that. That would have been a whole 'nother project.) Got lucky, just yanked on the old wire and it came up, so I just tied the new to the old and pulled it through. Got three ceiling boxes all wired with new romex and drilled through joists rather than laying it on top. Found TWO concealed junction boxes and cut 'em out. Heh, did ya see me post asking about box fill calcs? The guy there before me didn't think of that apparently, I think each of two 1-1/2" octagon boxes just laying loose had five cables coming into each, all spliced together inside. Yeah, this *needed* to be done. Had to repull one switch leg because it was too short to make it to the ceiling box. Wire nutted everything through and tried it. I got everything right but I lost a cable somewhere, MBR and bath are still dead. Circuit is protected by both an AFCI breaker and GFCI at first recep, neither tripped, so that is a good sign. Had to run out and get an old work box for the switch I had to repull, I just couldn't fish it through the knockout so I busted the box out of the wall. Killed the circuit because obviously I missed something (wouldn't *that* be a fun conversation with the insurance people?) looks like house was originally wired hot to all the ceiling boxes, then switch leg and a drop to each room's receps so I will start tracing cable at the MBR ceiling box tomorrow.
Holy heck I feel like I was working today. This is my VACATION????
If I feel froggy I will repull the other two switch legs and also the drops to the receps in the two little bedrooms (to get rid of the old cloth covered shit and provide a proper ground there as well.) First priority is figuring out where I messed up though so I can cut the power back on with confidence, and have lights that work...
*whew*
it is nice to see all that nice new grounded Romex and 90C wire in the ceiling boxes though... and getting rid of those junctions just flopping around under the insulation is also a Good Thing... oh yeah and the boxes are now flush with the ceiling like they should be...
Did I mention that that my attic floor has two layers of fiberglass covered by another big ol' mess of cellulose insulation? had to shove all that mess to the side every time I found a box or traced a cable. Just finding where everything goes is a project in and of itself!
gonna pour me a shot of bourbon and just relax for a bit methinks.
I *hope* if I ever sell this place that someone appreciates all this crap. I remember my grandpa (RIP) telling me to get a good education so I could get a good job and wouldn't have to kill my body doing manual labor. You know what, grandpa? You were right, but the sad thing is, I do know people that I would trust to do this work right (matter of fact one of 'em called me today because he didn't realize I was on vacation,) and I still can't afford 'em.
I always had respect for the electricians that specialized in retrofits (there are a couple that I use for subcontract work professionally) but if anything I just got a little more.
Just in case anyone is still following this saga...
Got back at it this AM, found that ceiling box in MBR is NOT fed directly from one of the ceiling boxes. It is fed by a recep in the bedroom, which is fed by a recep in the hallway on the other side of the stairs (cable apparently runs above ceiling of stairs, below sloping "floor" of closet.) Which is fed by a 14/3 switch leg... which I
*didn't* hook up last night. So that's why my stuff was dead. I didn't miss anything, I just didn't remember there being two cables in that receptacle box in the hallway (I ASSumed that that was the only thing being fed by the 14/3 switch leg.) I didn't hook it up because I figured that was something that I could do after all the heavy lifting was done and I was neatening stuff up and rehanging the light fixtures etc.
So all is good. I just repulled the drop to the "new" receps from the renovation 30 years or so ago and am taking a break before crawling back up there to run the wire over to the ceiling box and hook it up. Life is good! (although now that I'm learning more about how this house is wired, breaking the bathroom off onto its own circuit is going to be, um, challenging. I need to do that because there's no recep in there nor is there an exhaust fan, which I've purchased but have yet to install...)
I know, y'all are just so relieved that I figured it out, aren't you? :)
I'm still following the saga, and I am glad that you figured it out :-).
It's always nice to see other people going through the same struggles and pleasures that I do when I take on these types of projects. And, I like it when the OP of a thread actually does follow up as you did -- either by responding to the replies and/or writing what the final outcome was. I hate it when people post a question and are never heard from again despite receiving a lot of replies to their question (which is the opposite of what you did).
The downside is, I am sorely tempted to keep on rolling and keep rewiring more of the upstairs, and I think I am trying SWMBO's patience... but even though everything works now and there's not any code violations left that I'm aware of, I would like to provide grounds at all the receps so I can get rid of the GFCI, and also get rid of the original (to the house) wiring that's left in two ceiling boxes, because of the higher insulation temperature rating of NM-B... although I believe I've stated before, I am amazed at how well the original wiring in this house has held up, I used to live in a house that was built within a year or two of this one and every time I opened a box I'd have to bring some heat shrink and a lighter with me because the insulation would just crumble as soon as I flexed the wires. In this house the insulation is still nice and supple... weird. Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
I'm the same way when it comes to electrical wiring -- once I get started, I want to get rid of all of the old stuff completely. I'm just finishing doing that in one property and I recently finished doing that in another. One had all knob and tube wiring and the other had whatever the next generation of wiring was after that (the 2-wire, no ground stuff). Both are rental properties so I especially wanted them to have all new wiring. Of course, I haven't done the house where I live yet, which still has mostly all knob and tube wiring.
By the way, what is the "heat shrink and a lighter" trick? I never heard of that, but I have run into old brittle wiring once in a while that I would like to at least be able to do a temporary fix on.
Used to be there was a place around here called "Chesapeake Marine Fasteners" (RIP) that specialized in hardware for boats etc. (go figure!) They had an excellent selection of Grade 8 and stainless bolts, screws, nuts, washers, etc. - I spent a lot of money there because my real hobby is messing around with old cars. Anyway, they'd also sell 4' lengths of heat shrink in at least red and black. I always bought my heat shrink there because the little carded packs you get at the auto parts stores weren't long enough lengths. What I'd do is if I had to replace a switch or something and the wiring's insulation fell apart, I'd just cut a piece of heat shrink long enough to cover each wire all the way back to the cable clamp and shrink it right over top of the old insulation. For white wires I'd use the black and then tape over it with a ring of white tape. I have no idea if this is actually code compliant, but it is WAY neater than trying to tape wires that are physically inside a box - I can never seem to do it neatly.
I did this a lot in one house that I lived in... the current place is the first one that I've actually owned, but several places I;ve lived it seems that I was far more handy than the landlord, so I preferred to do small repairs myself rather than watch someone either do a complete hack job and/or spend lots of money to pay someone else to do it.
replying to Jim Elbrecht, DIYDon wrote: Been renovating a 100 year old house and salvaging for re-use as much baseboard and casing as possible. Absolute best tool to use once the nail head is up 1/16 inch is an end-nipper. Generous rounded face and huge leverage as you roll the tool and the take a new grip and do it again. Photo link below is a small one, but a 7 inch handle works for brads up through 16D common nails. I tried a lot of things before discovering this.
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