A guy on the radio saying, If you get 3 1/2 inches of rain in NYork,
that's 3 1/2 inches of rain washing all sorts of things into the
reservoirs in the Catskills, 3 1/2 inches of rain putting pressure on
Isn't everything that would be washed into the reservoirs already in the
reservoirs or there would be no water there either?
And NYC doesn't treat rain water, does it? It just goes down the drain
and into the river or the ocean, right? There are septic sewers and
rain sewers and they're separate.
I came in in the middle so I don't know who was saying this stuff.
It's a non issue for the reserviors, modulo a bit more inthe
way of leaves and debris 'cuz the water is flowing faster.
Not a big deal.
The sewage plants, though are a real problem.
NYC, for the most part, has a "combined sewer outflow" arrangement.
In other words, the "sanitary" (household) sewage goes through
the same pipes as the rain water (storm) flow.
The latter is easily a _huge_ multiplier higher than the household
number, and it's got a rapid peak when it rains..
As such, whenver there's a heavy rain, yes, the sewage plants
are in danger of getting overloaded. When this happens, the
workers activate bypass valves and the storm water, _ALONG_
with untreated (or only marginally treated) household/sanitry
sewage, gets dumped into the harbor/rivers.
The EPA doesn't like this, and the city is in a multi billion
dollar plan to do something or another.
Me, if asked, would say that given a choice between the
current situation of shutting down beaches maybe two weeks/year
(3/4 of which is during non swimming time...) versus spending
billions of dollars... would opt for saving the money.
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
They are talking about 2 issues. One is chemical and e-coli pollution
of the water supply upstream the other is the fact that in some parts
of most old cities the storm drains and the sewer lines are the same
DC has the same problem and it is a big issue in pollution that gets
into the Potomac, ending up in Chesapeake bay.
When rain water overloads the treatment plan, they end up dumping raw
They are also finding out that the water DC drinks is not as pristine
as they always said. I assume New York has the same problem.
I know for sure I have pissed in a NYC reservoir and laughed about it.
Of course I understood that the flock of 100 ducks I saw swimming
around there were doing much worse things to the water.
On Saturday, October 20, 2018 at 5:00:56 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
Those reservoirs are typically fed by streams or have water pumped into
them from rivers. If there is an exceptional, heavy rain, then more
undesirable, unexpected stuff can wash downhill in torrents and go
into the sources that feed the reservoirs.
AFAIK, NYC uses a combined system. That's why there have been incidents
over the years where with an exceptional rain, the treatment facility
can't handle it and stuff, eg bags, bottles, plastic that was in the
storm drains winds up going into the rivers. I think that has gotten
better over the years, but again, AFAIK, raw water in exceptional cases
can wind up in the river.
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Oct 2018 14:59:43 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
Answering Trader because his was last.
Well, you all agree. I'm sorry NYC -- where I Lived for 12 years and
had a good time, and moved to Baltimore partly because it was close
enough to NY -- has this problem but I'm glad it wasn't nonsense from
someone on the radio. It's one thing t hat people post nonsense on AHR,
but I like for the radio, especially NPR, to use some judgment about who
Yes the ducks do terrible things in the reservoir water. They should be
I lived in Indianapolis for 7 years and they have two reservoirs, Geiss
or Geist and Morse. The first one had sailboats in it -- you could dock
your sailboat there. And Morse had motor boats. You could dock your
motor boat and they had something like a steam paddleboat giving tours
(I don't know if that exhausts into the water, but all the other boats
did.) Still, people drank the stuff.
There was a tour in Baltimore a couple months ago of the east side water
treatment plant (Dam Jam) and I told one of the managers about Indy and
she was pretty surprised. I think they said it took from 6 to 9 hours
from the time the water (which comes from the Gunpowder or Little
Gunpowder River, for the east side) reached the treatment plant until it
left. Started off with turbidity of 60 iirc and ended with 0.06 or 04.
They added chlorine, then something that made the dirt clump, then they
gave it several hours to settle, and I forget what the final stage was.
The guy running it had started off 40 years ago mowing the lawn.
The woman I mentioned pointed out that bottled water only had to meet
FDA standards, but their water had to meet maybe it was EPA standards,
that are stricter. Bottled water costs thousands of times as much as
water from the tap.
Not really. The combined water/sewer rate here is $6-10 a 1000 gallons
plus all of the service charges and taxes depending on how much you
use. Top rate > 18000 gallons is about $10 per thousand or a penny a
gallon plus fees and taxes.
The grocery store sells gallon jugs of water for 78 cents.
If you buy the half liter bottles it is more like a dollar a gallon if
you shop around. (case of 24, 3 gallons $2.99) Worst case is paying a
buck a bottle at the shop and rob ($8 a gallon).
Expensive for the convenience but nowhere near "thousands of times as
You also need to treat the tap water here because it sucks. You need a
carbon filter, at least and to get close to bottled water quality
(usually R/O treated) you need an R/O. That ain't cheap either.
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Oct 2018 23:31:31 -0400,
I think we have water meters but no one to read them, so I don't really
know how much I would pay for water if the bill were not split evenly
about 500 ways. And I don't know how much water I or all of together
For a long time it was $60 a year. If each home was using 150 to let's
say, 200 gallons a day, that's over 70,000 gallons/$60 or over 1100
gallons /dollar or over 11 gallons for a penny, including fees and
taxes. 1/10th the price you came up with.
Sure you can get it cheaper but most people I see use 8 or 12 ounce
bottles, often buying them one at a time.
So $8/gallon : 9cents/gallon is 100 to one.
Not thousands but I thought I read that and the guy had a way to reach
that number. Maybe not.
Where do you live that doesn't meter water? Must be nice. I lived in
Clinton Md and they certainly metered my water there. I agree it was
cheap then but that was 35 years ago. It probably also had lead in it.
Much of the water in the DC water system does ... still.
The standard water bottle is a half liter (a little over a pint) and
the ones in vending machines and convenience stores is 20oz. People
buying them one at a time are usually getting water instead of a soft
drink. Pepsi and Coke don't really care because the cost of the sugar
and color is insignificant in the price of the product.
Around 1980 I was in a small development of about a dozen houses . We
all paid a flat rate from a comunity well system for about 10 years as
there were no meters installed. Then meters were installed and we were
charged by the usage. I don't recall the prices back then. About 2006
I moved to a house with my own well, so have no idea what the actual
water cost would be. I doubt the well pump uses very much power, but I
do have to pay for any repair cost , which sofar has only been about $
30 for a motor part.
The electricity to run the well is not outrageous maybe about 25-30
cents per 1000 gallons (2 pumps) but that does not include the $10,000
it costs around here to drill the well, install the pumps and the
water treatment equipment. For me it is 2 pumps, 2 expansion tanks, an
aerator tank, a course filter, a water softener, a carbon filter and
an R/O for the water we drink.
Just replacing filters, membranes and adding salt averages over $150 a
year. I seem to get about 5-6 years out of pumps and expansion tanks.
It is pretty much as long as the warranty lasts ;-)
Well water is far from free.
On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 1:52:14 PM UTC-4, email@example.com wrote:
I was wondering how he could have such cheap municipal water in MD too.
The rates you gave, I think that's about the rate here we're paying too.
The environmental impact from needlessly shipping most of that water,
consuming oil to truck it, all the plastic, it winding up in streams,
lakes, the oceans, is one big mess. I don't buy water by the bottle.
Not buying water that way would save people money and be an easy
positive step for the environment.
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 15:12:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
For us bottled water is a survival thing. When you have a hurricane,
bottled water is pretty important stuff to have. I always go into
summer with around 10 cases on hand. Since I had my generator going
after Irma and we had water I was distributing it to my neighbors. We
usually work our way through it throughout the winter and stock up
again in the spring.
I also keep bottled water on the boat in case of an emergency although
most of it gets given to kayakers who thought a bottle or two would be
plenty. That is always the first question I ask them. "You have plenty
We also pick up everything we see floating in the boat.
I try not to confuse containers with the assholes who litter with
them. Most of the trash I pick up is not water bottles or straws.
If you are getting water from WSSC (DC) there have been lead problems
reported. Not sure about Baltimore but if the water is going through
the older parts of town, they probably still have lead pipe and older
houses (before the 90s) have lead soldered copper pipe.
Lead is one of the issues for the "bottled water people"
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Oct 2018 05:59:26 +0000 (UTC), danny
Yeah, alum, she said.
They also had vanes on shafts spinning slowly to help the clumping
along. A couple of the vanes were missing because the place is old.
This treatment plant is about 80 years old iirc and most of it is
unchanged. He said they aren't allowed to build new ones open to the
sky anymore, but I'm not sure if that's because of birds or terrorists.
On Saturday, October 20, 2018 at 10:39:50 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
If that bothers you, better not live in any of the towns and cities that
pump their water out of rivers, with other towns and cities upstream discharging
their sewage systems into those rivers. Personally, I'd be more worried
about chemicals from all kinds of sources that go into those systems, as
opposed to some boats on a reservoir. The biologicals are probably easier
to neutralize and deal with than arsenic.
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