I am planning a Kitchen remodel and need to get rid of the hot water oil
fired baseboard heat. Is there a in floor radiant heat alternative? I
plan on redoing floor with ceramic tile. Currently have 2 layers vinyl
over plywood sub floor over joists. All of kitchen is assessable from
basement. I know there are systems for concrete floors but what about
this situation? Appreciate any help or suggestions.
Yes there is, but some things need to be answered first. Do you know how
thick the plywood subfloor is. If it's not thick enough to route the
appropriate grooves into you will need to add a layer. One manufacturer I
used had flooring with the correct groove already in place, then there is a
thin metal reflective insert, and then the plastic tubing element fits into
the groove, then the flooring. The tubing is push to fit on a manifold with
pressure fittings. Easy, pretty quick, and sort of DIY.
Check these out:
Or you could simply install radiant piping against the subfloor from
the basement. Normally, you would then install foil backed insulation
with the shiny side up. Since this heats the subfloor/floor
combination, it is usually installed with mixing valves (hot water
plus some amount of return) which is then set at the appropriate
temperature. That temperature depends upon the composition of the
Don't have a clue? Well tell that to the contractor that did a lot of the
floors in some of the homes I own. Done exactly as I mentioned. In those
houses with the second and third floors unheated, (other than fireplaces,
and ten foot intricate plaster ceilings there was no alternative within
budget and esthetics that met my requirements.
Oh and by the way the contractors name........Trethewey Bros. Plumbing
You need to read better, it clearly states
"Do you know how thick the plywood subfloor is. If it's not thick enough to
route the appropriate grooves into you will need to add a layer."
I have used Warmboard in a couple newer houses, but the houses we did, which
were three old victorian summer houses here on Cape Cod, I was converting
the three seperate floors into single floor condo's.
Having already dealt with the hysterical commission to convert the homes, I
was allowed to do so as long as there were no structural or environmental
changes visible. The homes all had high ceilings, ornate baseboards, and
ornate floors. No baseboards, no holes in floors, no visible changes in any
wall, floor, or ceiling.
The only way to add heat to these structures was by radiant floor heating.
After painstakingly marking, and documenting the floors, removing all the
hardwood along with the inlays, or parquet was next. Since there could not
be any additional height to the new floor we had to make up a system to
route the appropriate width and depth grooves into the existing subfloor.
Then we layed down reflective panels that overlapped the groove by a couple
inches, lay down a continuous run of tubing, and then replace the flooring
piece by piece. The rest is of no concern.
That's what we did. Expensive? Not really other than the floor labor. Time
consuming? You bet. But all the condos sold within a month of completion.
You might recognize the name Trethewey, it's the same family of brothers
that Rich Trethewey of T.O.H. hails from. Most of the ideas came from him,
although most of the physical work came from me.
Remember, someone other than you asked a question, I answered it with
information from past experience that has worked very well for me and
Your brilliant response was "You ain't got a clue." A more intelligent use
of the english language I may have never seen.
And when I tried to explain to you what was done, and by someone that has as
much and probably more experience than you, you come back with more
To which I would say, Yes, you should be impressed. The Trethewey Bros.
company is a highly respected plumbing and heating contractor now known here
in America, and abroad.
As in your first response you offered nothing of assistance, just an
ignorant statement about something you obviously had no experience with.
Just because you didn't fully read the response, and then don't agree with
what I had to say, is really no reason to denigrate someone else's response.
Simply offer your idea constructively as someone trying to help, or don't.
Otherwise be quiet.
Just because you have dealt with Trethewey Plumbing does not mean I am
impressed. As much as I like Rich, he is no different from any other
American. As a matter of fact, the only Trethwey listed as a member of the
RPA (see below) is as a trade associate, not a dealer/contractor. Rich
would be just as an unknown as 99.98% of the contractors out there if it
weren't for TOH. Can we agree on that?
Well, are you a member of the RPA? Have you been to manufacturer training
classes? Do you actually have field experience with radiant systems beyond
your own house(s)?
I have all the above, as well as a member of the RPA.
I did supply an answer the first time that was a little quick and without a
lot of real reading of your response. That I will openly admit. But your
case (much like you) was special. The OP was looking for answers for his
house, not an historical renovation. In 99% of the times, your answer would
be grossly incorrect.
The OP said he had an open basement, perfect for the extruded aluminum
panels for the radiant. There is no need for him to use a router to cut
grooves in his floors. That you suggest he do that is inexcusable; as that
is too time consuming for most people.
This discussion reminds me of a similar one I had with an ME (mechanical
engineer). This gent was correct in every aspect of the world, but he knew
too much for the average person. We got into a lengthy discussion about the
assorted relief valves that are available in the world. He thought (as I do
sometimes) that everyone knew as much as he did. The simple end to our
discussion was that the average homeowner has no use for 99% of the pressure
relief valves out in the market.
Let's leave this as gentlemen and carry it no further. All we are doing is
wasting bandwidth and annoying the other people out there.
Can I buy you a beverage of your choice?
Thank You for all the info and links in your replies. You all gave me
some good info and ideas. I could go the way from under or on top. All
ajoining rooms have hardwood floors so I want to level the litchen to
that level anyway so another layer of plywood or one of those systems
with a pregrooved board would work ok
You have allowed for the height difference for what your going to do,,,,,,
Tubing is going to be 3/8 to 1/2 and the tile will add another 1/2 to 1 inch
depending on what you buy.
The details where this flooring ends could be a bear. Good luck, I am going
to attempt this in my bathrooms but I will be scoring the concrete. Let us
know how it turns out
Radiant can be done easily in your kitchen, from your description.
Some of these guys can help you: http://www.heatinghelp.com/getlisted.cfm
You can use a product called Quick-Track sold by Wirsbo below the floor. It
gives great results.
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