Propane vs. Nat. Gas

[SteveB]

I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended. There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a gas stove. Am considering propane. I have a propane stove at the cabin and it works fine. Heats fast, bakes good. We don't use it a lot, not nearly as much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then convert when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?

Steve

[dpb]

... First, _why_ do you want the gas stove/range? That should determine whether you're willing to wait or not.

Propane probably won't be any cheaper than the electric, might even be more expensive depending on just how high LP is where you are as compared to the electric rates.

The "chef" reasons for gas are immaterial one to the other imo (and, not being particularly culinary, mostly overrated), but those are choices only possible to be made on the basis of personal preference and/or prejudice.

--

[Robert Allison]

No big difference in using it. There is very little difference between natural gas and propane as far as using it goes. Natural gas is cheaper than propane.

The deciding factor may be the initial cost. While the NG company may charge you a fee for hookup, the propane will be quite a hefty initial cost. The tank you will probably have to buy. The propane company will do the install and hook everything up to your gas line. Depending upon the size of your tank, that will be between 1200 and 1800 bucks including the first fill of propane.

With either one, you are going to have to install gas lines to your fixtures. I did my own and only had to pay for materials, so I can't tell you what it would be for you. I put the stove and the water heater on the propane. Left the AC/Heat as electric. Materials were about

150.00, not including stove and water heater.

I HATE electric stoves, so the choice was easy for me. YMMV

In addition, there are no inspections here in the country, so I did not have to deal with that. Again, YMMV.

[Mike Dobony]

I don't know about the initial hookup, but it costs me $60 a year to rent a

500 gallon propane tank. It was already here when I bought the trailer.

As far a grilling goes, I have been able to use the NG grill on much colder days than I could ever with propane. OTOH, the conversion from propane to NG is fairly inexpensive. I think it cost about $30 for the grill conversion kit (Great Outdoors grill, no longer being manufactured). For a stove it is simply replacing the jets.

Mike D.

[Robert Allison]

This is true and if you can get the propane company to rent you the tank, that is the way to go. For reasons that I don't like, they would only sell one to me. If I had put my HVAC on gas, they would have rented me a tank, but I didn't, so they wouldn't. Something about ALL the fixtures must be on propane for them to rent. That may be different in other areas.

When I first converted the stove, I just ran off a 60 gallon tank, which I carried down to the propane place to refill. When I installed the water heater, I didn't want to have to carry that down every 3 weeks or so, so I rented the tank. 250 gallon.

[Paul M. Eldridge]

Hi Steve,

I've cooked on electric, natural gas and, most recently, propane. I currently live in an area where natural gas won't be available for at least another ten years, so propane is what I use now. In my case, propane is almost twice as costly as electric per BTU, but it does allow me to prepare hot meals in the event of an extended power outage; that's important to me. And given a choice, I prefer natural gas or, alternatively, propane over electric for all the reasons you've no doubt heard before.

I had a natural gas BBQ when I lived in Toronto and it was great because you never worried about running out of propane (inevitably at the worst possible time) and messing with tanks or transporting the equivalent of a Ford Pinto in your trunk. My current BBQ is connected to the main propane tank by way of a quick disconnect, so these same benefits apply.

Just make sure the appliances you purchase can be easily converted to natural gas when that happy day comes (not a problem in most cases, but some BBQs cannot) and that the lines are properly sized for natural gas -- depending upon the BTU load, a larger diameter line may be required.

Cheers, Paul

[ransley]

Its the same, its gas, Just get a stove that comes with or order now conversion jets, my cooktop came with both.

[Pete C.]

LP vs. Nat gas, effectively no difference, and cheap and easy to switch a stove between them.

As for waiting, if it's just the stove you want, by all means get it, set it for propane, and feed it from an ordinary purchased 100# LP tank. If you aren't running the furnace, hot water, gas dryer, etc. your LP use will be very low.

I have a dual fuel stove with 5 gas burners that runs from an ordinary

20# LP tank outside. I'm single, but I do like to cook so the stove gets plenty of use and I have to swap the 20# tank every 8+ months. Unless you have a huge family, it's highly unlikely you'd have to fill a 100# tank more than once a year, you can fill it anywhere, and you aren't paying rental on a huge LP tank you don't need.

If / when Nat. gas becomes available, you can hookup if you decide the economics and the monthly service charge warrant it. If you still only have a gas stove, and have no need to run anything else gas, I expect the economics will show that just filling the LP tank once a year and not paying any service charges is a better deal.

[SteveB]

If you don't cook, how can you offer an opinion?

Gas cooks better. Electric sucks. Go to any restaurant and see if they use electricity or gas.

Steve

[Pete C.]

Actually, they each have their benefits. I have dual fuel, which is really the best of both, with gas burners up top, and electric convection main and electric side ovens below.

[Joseph Meehan]

Many if not all stoves are changeable without much effort, so you can buy propane now and go with NG later when it comes in and save, as NG is almost always cheaper.

[Paul M. Eldridge]

Hi Pete,

Initially, I wasn't too thrilled that my range was dual fuel, but it's turned out to be the better choice afterall now that propane is more expensive than electricity (at least locally) and because no combustion by-products are released into the room. The one drawback for me is that the forty amp breaker steals space in main panel that could be used for other purposes; at this point, I have one slot remaining.

Cheers, Paul

[dpb]

SteveB wrote: ...

I simply asked -- if you're one of those who thinks that way, then that should be your deciding factor imo...I personally don't happen to think it makes a heck of a lot of difference, but for those who do, go for it...

[Pete C.]

Having spent quite a bit of time cooking on both electric and gas at different houses, it is entirely possible to cook good meals on either. Having gas burners makes some tasks easier, and makes a few tasks possible such a stir fry where few if any electric stoves have sufficient heat output to work properly (even low end gas stoves aren't adequate).

[salty]

I actually have both in my kitchen. The gas truly excels at everything except when you need to gently simmer something on low heat. I have a two burner electric range built into the counter for that one function. For everything else, I'm cookin' with GAS.

[hallerb]

yep a 100 pound LP tank and stove with conversion parts on hand to convert when NG becomes available..........

they did this on a ask this old house recently

[Paul M. Eldridge]

Hi Pete,

I have a 100-amp main panel with 32 half height breakers, but no means to add a sub panel (finished area). I'd like to add a second ductless heat pump to serve the basement level and it seems my best option is to terminate the range cable in the laundry room and install a pony panel that will serve both loads; given the oven is 5,200-watts, there should be enough capacity for them to happily co-exist.

As you say, better temperature control is supposedly one key advantage, although I can't honestly say I've noticed any difference.

Cheers, Paul

[Pete C.]

Doubtful, since he would then have to purchase a new stove when NG became available.

If he's just running a stove, LP will absolutely be cheaper than NG since NG comes with a service charge every month, and for a stove only, all he'll have to do is take a 100# LP tank to be filled once a year at most and not pay any tank rental charges for a huge LP tank or service charges for NG service.

Fill a portable tank every few weeks???????? What planet are you on? Or are you cooking for an entire town from a 20# LP tank? A 20# LP tank runs my stove and I swap it out every 8-10 months.

[Pete C.]

A finished area doesn't mean you can't add a sub panel. Indeed if you couldn't add a sub, how could you install new circuits to use up the remaining space in the current panel? It's just a bit more work to fish wires around, and a little less fun.

Capacity is a function of the wire gauge, so you'd need to verify what it's wired with. If it's a newer installation, the range feed should be four wire which is what you'd need for a sub panel. If it's older three wire then you can't repurpose it as a sub panel feed.

It depends on the cooking you do as to how much you'd notice it, but I certainly noticed that when I cook on electric I frequently have to physically lift a pan off the burner when I turn it down since it will take several seconds before the electric coil begins to cool vs. the instant change in flame level with gas. Minor for small pans, but a real pain for big heavy stuff, or when you are multitasking several burners and can't spare the time to hold the pan in the air.

[Eric Scantlebury]

I only have my stove on Propane (if you cook electric sucks - you cannot control the temp with any type of fine degree. Though if you bake electric ovens are the best). They wanted to start "renting" me the tanks for a couple hudred dollars a year because I didn't use "enough" propane - that on top of charging what amounts to twice the $ per gallon that any old place will fill a 20lb tank for. They call it a premium becuase I only use so much. That's when I told them to come get their tanks and I installed 2 40 lbers and a regulater bought at an RV store - got the idea when I saw all these RV's driving around with dual tanks and figured "Hell" that's all I need.. LOL! Now, not only do I pay less for propane I own the tanks. When I run out on the grill I can "rob" a tank from my house (or vice versa). The only "inconveniance" is a couple times a year I have to go 5 minutes down the road to buy propane.