Portable Generator once more..

[Chuck]

A couple months ago.. during debate on portable power generators, one poster stated if I remeber correctly that majority of portable generators produced modified sine wave power, compairable to quality of power from cheap inverter ( bad for sensitive electronics)

1. Is this true? IIRC it was one poster who was stating this..

1. If this is true.. what do you look for when buying a generator that delivers "quality" power that won't fry electronics? I have not seen any stickers on units for sale that say they're modified sine wave.. Thanks (tropical storm/ hurricane season is here!)

Chuck Mu2

[toller]

You have it all wrong. Generators produce a real sine wave. However... Inexpensive generators are usually not voltage regulated. There are two consequences of this; they can wildly fluctuate voltage as the load changes, and they are usually very noisy (both is waveform and sound.) Either one can damage sensitive devices. Six years ago we had a major wind storm that left a few hundred thousand people without power for up to a week. I know of 5 furnaces that were burnt out by unregulated generators, but there were thousands of unregulated generators powering furnaces. So your odds are good, but the price for being one of the losers is pretty high. Do you feel lucky? Personally I prefer a good generator; they are safer, quieter, and generally use less gas. Those are all good things that justify their price.

[Chuck]

Opps I think I may have done a reply by email..

Ok,, do any openly state if they have closely regulated voltage?

Thanks.. Chuck

, 11 Aug 2004 21:04:10 GMT, "toller" wrote:

[m Ransley]

Unregulated voltage gens start at a high voltage and usualy reach 120

60 hz at load. Start voltage is usualy around 135, but cheap low powered units easily swing 35 v ++. Even Coleman in their manual says if electronics are to be used buy a separate regulator and they even give you a telephone #. Those regulators can double cheap generators cost. Regulated units usualy swing only 10- 15v. Honda has a line of " clean power" stable signwave generators that are as clean or cleaner than your utility co. And they have a line that is voltage regulated. And are very quiet in sound noise. Whatever you get test it before you need it to full load with a meter to be sure it will do what you need. You should look for voltage regulation and find out the % volt swing the unit is desiged for and see if your equipment can handle it. HZ varies with voltage , many motors wont start if Hz is off. Look for a good motor with steel sleeve and pressure oiled. The cheapest unit that does this is a Generac 4000exl for 700 at HD it also has electric start and an oil filter, but it stil swings apx 10v. For better go Honda , their inverter line is the best but at 2.5 x the price of Generac. Some Colemans use techumpsee motors some models which only last 350 hrs Pressure oiled steel sleeve can go 3500 hrs. With generators you really get what you pay for

[m Ransley]

Most anything under 700 is unregulated, you have to research and ask about allot of things , what brand are you looking at.

[MC]

Inverters produce non sinewave output with many harmonics that are bad. The good onces will filter much of that out, better ones can eliminate most of it.

Generators produce sinewave output but as metioned are poorly regulated at the low end.

Another problem is surge current. Depending on what you are powering you will awnt to size the generator for any start current requirements for inductive loads, otherwise the startup voltage drop you will encounter if such a condition happens can shorten and/or burn up a motor.

Probably more exsessive than most will need, but I have a good 12000 output Gen to handle all the fridge/freezers and small motor loads and if careful I can even run the AC. I also feed into a good size UPS to regulate and further protect all my elcetronics and computers in the home office. Most electronics like a clean power on and power off, when using a generator one can have a condition sometimes when power will come up slower and if the generator is shutoff will cause the voltage to slowly drop, this can be bad. Best to have a auto disconnect that will only allow output when the generator is ready to produce full output and disconnect cleanly if the voltage drops to a preset minimum for a specifc amount of time.

[toller]

If they have voltage regulation (or possibly automatic voltage regulation) they will feature it in their advertising copy, as it is an important and expensive feature. If they don't mention it, they don't have it. Sadly, it will probably cost twice as much as an unregulated genny, but you get other good features as well; such as low noise, etc. If price is a problem, you might get lucky with a used one. Last year I bought a small used regulated Kawasaki with only 20 hours on it for $350; it was about $1,000 new, but apparently the market for used Kawasakis is not good. (Or you might get one with 1000 hours without an oil change; you have to be careful.)

[m Ransley]

One thing not to do is let the gen run out of gas connected to anything with Capacitors, they easilt fry. Motors, electronics etc.

[user]

You might be able to get a deal on new ones, too. Around here in Upstate NY, Home Depot has been selling the Generac

7550EXL for about $1K. Seems to be a decent generator - voltage regulated, has an idle setting that substantially reduces noise, electric start, pressured oiling, etc. Only other thing I'd wish for is an oil filter.

- Rich

[m Ransley]

The Generac EXL line all have oil filters. EXL is Electric start Extended Life. The 4000EXL the 7500 EXL and the one you mentioned 7550 EXL, They also come with an extra oil filter , Battery and float charger and cover. I have a 7500 EXL from Lowes which often has a Transfer Panel kit giveaway. The models on EXL are similar but Generac badges each stores unit as unique so they dont have to expose the store to price wars. So ineffect HD and Lowes carry the same unit plus or minus a few features but HD will not match a price at Lowes saying it is a different model when in actuality it is but say a 50 watt higher rating and different color and extra extension cord, or other giveaway. The

700$ 4000 EXL is nice as is the 7500 EXL which I paid 1250 but got allot of freebees, Air - Oil filters, plugs, Oil, Charger, and a completly wired transfer panel , Wire- cable, Plugs , and ccver. Generac makes their own steel sleeve, pressurised , oil filtered , electric start motor and is owned by Briggs & Stratton. Remember to run it with a mild load of 220 in no longer than 6 mo intervals or the Gen Head can loose residual field magnitism and need complicated " Flashing " to Re -magnitise the Gen Head magnetic field.

[user]

Bzzzt. Sorry, but your advice is as inaccurate as usual. I have a 7550EXL currently sitting in my garage, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that the engine does not have an oil filter, and neither does it come with a cover.

Got any more uninformed statements to make?

- Rich

[m Ransley]

USER . You either dont have an EXL , got screwed, or dont know how to look at a motor , or dont know what an oil filter is.

EXL models have oil filters, you stupid Bozo.

As I said " Extras " define store model differences, a cover is an " extra "

[m Ransley]

USER you the looser

Generac model 1470 at HD the 7550 comes with an oil filter, go check the Generac site Bozo, Are you so stupid you cant see it in plain view, or to fat to bend over and look. You better learn to use your equipment USER-Looser. Mr A

[m Ransley]

My info wrong ? Go check it out USER Looser

[m Ransley]

"USER" The BozoLooser doesnt even know his own unit has an Oli Filter On the MOTOR BWAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAA

It also runs on Gasoline " USER "

[user]

Really? I wonder why the model plate has "7550EXL" on it then.

Really? I wonder why the engine manual mentions specifically that it doesn't have an oil filter.

No, you said it came with a cover. And yet it doesn't.

[user]

Check out the manual, which is also online. Notice anything about the oil filter?

[user]

Got anything else you'd like to refute? ;-)

[user]

You mean the one that I have in my garage, as opposed to the one you don't have?

I'm rather curious about what you'd have to say if I posted photos of each side of the engine, and have you try to point out where you think the oil filter is. And then see if you even bother to respond, when you can't find it. :-)

- Rich

[m Ransley]

Yea call generac, EXL models have oil filters , you got screwed, The

7550 is also listed as having an oil filter on Generacs site and it states it is available at HD.

So you got screwed.