Pool Wiring Question

[DerbyDad03]

A friend is having a heated pool installed. He has a breaker panel outside near the pool. He was told that per NYS code, the wires that go run through his basement from the exterior panel to the main panel must be run inside rigid conduit. He said that they didn't use individual wires, they used some type of jacketed cable that contains 4(?) wires and they ran that inside grey plastic conduit. I haven't seen it, but I assume it's Schedule

40 PVC.

Another friend had a heated pool installed last year (also in NYS) and he said that they didn't use conduit through his basement. They just stabled a large cable to the joists.

So what's the story? Is the conduit required? If it is, is it specifically related to the pool or is it because there's another panel involved?

Thanks.

[DerbyDad03]

I was asking about the wires that run _inside_ the house from where they enter through the wall and run back to the main interior panel, not the wires that run underground or from the exterior panel to pump/heater/etc.

[trader_4]

There isn't anything in NEC that differentiates how a subpanel for a pool is connected versus any other subpanel. There is no reason I know of that says wires for a pool or anything else have to be run in rigid conduit for a subpanel. Here, NJ, very typical to use appropriate sized cable to go from the basement panel to the pool subpanel, on the side of the house. If they had an existing code compliant subpanel that the pool could run off, no reason to go rework that with conduit inside the house, which is what it looks like you;re saying they did.

[DerbyDad03]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. He did not have a panel outside the house until the pool was installed. The panel was installed as part of the pool installation. At the time the panel was installed, he was told that conduit was required for the wires from that panel to the main panel.

I can say upfront that he wasn't being ripped off by the installer because the installer is doing everything he can to save the homeowner some money. The installer told my friend "if I buy the conduit, I have to mark it up. Take this list. If all these conduit parts are here when I run the wires, then I'll use it."

[jamesgang]

There may have been other circumstances in the situation. He has to protec t the wire from the main to the sub-panel from damage. One way is conduit. Another way is to run it inside a wall. Possibly the conduit was cheaper . That's not specific to pools, you have to protect any exposed wire.

[trader_4]

ect the wire from the main to the sub-panel from damage. One way is condui t. Another way is to run it inside a wall. Possibly the conduit was cheap er. That's not specific to pools, you have to protect any exposed wire.

I've seen electricians in NY state run sheathed cable without a conduit for a panel right along the outside of a house for a whole separate service. A friend of mine bought a rental property and he had another meter installed so that the second floor had it's own meter. The licensed electrician ran sheathed cable, otherwise unprotected, along the outside of the house, about 4 ft off the ground most of the way. I thought that was unsafe and should have been protected, but apparently they do it in the Adirondacks.

[trader_4]

Well shiver me timbers, I got this wrong. Special rules do apply for a pool subpanel. NEC 680.25 states that any feeders supplying a pool panel must be in conduit, either EMT, PVC, liquidtight, etc. So, the installers are correct.

[gfretwell]

Yup, Sorry I am late to the party, I was working today

680.25 Feeders. These provisions shall apply to any feeder on the supply side of panelboards supplying branch circuits for pool equipment covered in Part II of this article and on the load side of the service equipment or the source of a separately derived system. (A) Wiring Methods. Feeders shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit, rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit, or reinforced thermosetting resin conduit. Electrical metallic tubing shall be permitted where installed on or within a building, and electrical nonmetallic tubing shall be permitted where installed within a building. Aluminum conduits shall not be permitted in the pool area where subject to corrosion.

[gfretwell]

Typically in new construction my wife would rough in a 1" PVC conduit to the likely pool/spa controller location if there is any chance the customer might want a pool. It is $50 at that point but much more expensive to do later when the walls are sealed up.

[DerbyDad03]

Almost vindicated in that people almost use a shovel in the joist bays of their basement. :-)

[Don Phillipson]

It appears the Ontario Electrical Code does not need separate or additional conduit if the wire is in "liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit." The point emphasized here is that outdoor power lines must be buried (about 20 inches deep.)

[trader_4]

Which is exactly what's on the list of acceptable methods above in 680.25.