Paint formula changes

[Mayayana]

| Here we go again. I use GG and I don't have any problem | in not replying to 10 year old posts. It's the operator, | not the tool. Do you understand that different people | have different usage models and just because you like | your solution, it doesn't mean that other folks who prefer | other solutions need to change.

I've never seen anyone respond to old posts who wasn't using Google groups. If you like it that's up to you, but webpage format is a very poor subsstitute for a newsreader. And people are misled. You may understand Usenet but many people don't. They find Google Groups online and then they think they're in a forum. They need to understand how it all works.

[trader_4]

And why exactly is that? It works perfectly find for me. And I can use it at any computer I want, not just the one I have a newsreader installed on.

Mislead by what exactly? And even if they are, why do you care?

No, they just need to be able to use it. And any damn fool can respond to a 10 year old post with a newsreader too.

A couple days ago you were here bitching because someone put down Windows, claiming Linux was so superior and the only right solution. Now you're doing the same thing, pissing and moaning about GG.

[Mayayana]

| > And people are misled. | | Mislead by what exactly? And even if they are, why | do you care? | Misled by the webpage format, not understanding how Usenet works. I care because it wastes everyones' time for people to answer 10 year old posts. Not least of which is the person posting. Assuming cerda28 was writing a sincere post, they've wasted their time more than anyone else has. Why shouldn't I tell them?

| No, they just need to be able to use it. And any damn fool | can respond to a 10 year old post with a newsreader too. |

I don't assume the GG users are "damn fools". I'm guessing it's simply a case of their only knowing Usenet through Google reprints, so they neither understand how Usenet works nor realize how awkward webpage format is for the medium. A lot of younger people, especially, have never actually seen Usenet in its real form, as a distinct protocol from http.

And I don't see how even a "damn fool" could respond to a 10-year-old post using a newsreader. A newsreader displays recent posts. Mine defaults to the most recent 300. If I could see a post from 2004 it would probably take me 10 minutes just to scroll that far. But I wouldn't, because the posts are in order, so I could see perfectly well that those posts date to 2004! Have you ever used a newsreader yourself? They show current posts, highlighting the ones you haven't read. They also display in a "treeview", showing the order of posts in a thread, so that people don't have to keep reposting the whole thread. The layout provides a clear, immediate, graphical view of all active conversations. Webpage format flattens that into a long series of posts, with no clear way to see who was posting to whom, and no way to display the structure of posts in a thread. In short, newsreaders are especially designed for Usenet. You might want to try one out. I think you'll find they're far more appropriate than a webpage layout, just as a Windows Explorer treeview is far easier to work with than it would be to have a simple listbox, listing every file on your computer in a single, long list.

| A couple days ago you were here bitching because someone | put down Windows, claiming Linux was so superior and the | only right solution.

As I recall you were agreeing with me. :) I wasn't "bitching". He was making a cheap dig about Windows, but I wasn't answering to that. I answered him because he was wrong and his post was potentially misleading to the OP, implying that Linux held the solution to the OP's dilemma.

| Now you're doing the same thing, | pissing and moaning about GG.

Bitching and pissing and moaning? Do you feel you need to stand up for GG? Do you really think it's better to just leave cerda28 in ignorance? You're not doing him/her any favors by not saying anything. If you were wasting your time writing to people who aren't there, wouldn't you want to be told?

(We might all start writing to people who aren't there one of these days, but at least we don't have to do it while we can still think clearly. :)

[Norminn]

clipped

I think it is rather fruitless to try to find a match going by color NAME....there are only so many names to slap on a can. Good idea to keep a log of color formulas you have used, as that is the best way to find a match. That said, there is bound to be some variation in brands or batches of tinting pigments. Bringing in a sample of the color to be matched is best....a good paint dept./store will mix the color, take a sample and DRY it, then adjust accordingly. And after all that, if using different batches of paint, mix them whenever possible before the first is depleted so that if there is a slight variation they will be blended.

It is a mystery to me how "fashion trends" are decided a year or two in advance of producing products (paint, wallpaper, furniture, fabric, etc.), but that is how it goes. Behr and everyone else likely pay a lot of attention to which colors are selling and which are not.

[David Martel]

Cerda,

The actual color that a paint dries to varies. Different lots made on different days are different colors. Your expectation that you would get a color match was unrealistic.

Dave M.

[trader_4]

I'm using GG right now. It clearly shows that this post you just made was on May 26, 11 hours ago. It's part of the header displayed. It also clearly says that the old post that the person responded to yesterday was made 7/2/04.

Not least

I didn't say you shouldn't tell them. I said that you shouldn't be slamming and blaming GG, because it's an operator error, that has nothing to do with GG. Got it now?

And a lot of them don't give a damn how usenet works. They go searching for something, see something and make a post. Maybe they do that once in 10 years, maybe it's their first time. But according to you, they have to understand how usenet works and need to find and install a newsreader, instead of using GG. Every one of these people that I see, makes one post and that's it. They probably were Googling for something, saw a post, made a reply via GG. They may not do it again for 5 years. But according to you, they are supposed to learn how usenet works, figure out which newsreader they want to use, install it? Really?

A lot

Irrelevant, especially for someone that makes one post a year. And I think that's what you're seeing.

The posts are in order on GG and the date is clearly stated. Obviously you don't even use GG and don't know what it does. And they almost certainly are not finding old posts by scrolling, they are likely finding them via a search engine, eg Google.

I have no problem following everything on GG. I'm here communicating everyday.

I have used them. You might want to stop bitching about what other people use, which has *nothing* to do with the problem. The date of that 7/02/04 post is clearly diplayed in GG.

The tree feature is nice, but you ignore the significant advantages that GG has. I can use it from any computer, anywhere without having to put special software on it. You can't do that with your newsreader. Am I going to slam it because of that, tell you it's a piece of crap? No.

I think you'll find they're far more appropriate than a

And you're now doing *exactly* what he did. You're on your soap box, bitching about how GG sucks and how what you use is so superior. He did the same thing, slamming Windows in favor of Linux. He was wrong, so are you.

Yes, just as much as you need to put it and those that use it down.

Do you really think it's better to just

Good grief. I had no problem with you telling him that the post was 10 years old. It's you laying off the problem on GG that I take issue with. And I doubt he's even going to see your response anyway. He's most likely not following the group. He probably did a search, found that old post, responded to it and he's done. Can you show us one of these one hit wonders that started making regular posts? Or even made more than the one post?

You're not doing him/her

Deflection noted. Deflection rejected.

[clare]

In my experience if it has the same code, the mix matches even several years later - but if, as was intimated, they changed the BASE used, the formula will also change, and the colour match will be a real crapshoot. I'd try having the paint store ad the missing parts of toner to match the original formula and see what happens.

[Robert Green]

"trader_4" wrote in message news:338a6d93-2514-4e6b-88f4-

Agreed.

Way back when the Univacs ruled the world, my CompSci professor addressed this very question in another form. He asked us "should a carpenter have to know electric motor theory and design to be able to use a power drill?" Of course not. Yet we often expect computer users to need to know a lot more about the technology of computers than they have to in order to get a simple job done.

It's why I always smile a bit when Linux is proposed as an alternative to Windows. Some people say "Windows is like driving with an automatic transmission and Linux is like driving a stickshift" but the reality is that Linux is like driving a Formula One race car where nearly all operation are carried out through the controls on the steering wheel. It's a very, very different paradigm. The auto/stick analogy is perhaps better suited to comparing Macs to PCs where PC's are the stickshift.

Why should we expect a person with a question he wants answered to care a whit about newsreaders, Usenet, threads, etc? All they really want is to have their question answered and sites like Google and DIY banter have evolved to allow them to do that without having to learn how to acquire, configure and use a newsreader.

Yet it seems to be a source of great consternation for those who instead of welcoming a new poster who comes to us through Homeowner's Hub or such other portals, bash them for not "praying properly" to the great Usenet god. Ironically some of the bashers seem to be quite religious types. It makes it easy to understand the phrase "For religion is the greatest inspirer of hatred the world has ever seen, and it shows no sign of losing that character in its old age. (Mencken - 1928) Change "religion" to "dogmatic thought" and the results are pretty much identical.

Lots of people post questions from their work enviroment and may not even be able to use a standard newsreader because those ports are blocked. My chief complaint with GG is that it seems to add blank lines for no particular reason and responding to a GG post often involves tedious reformatting to eliminate all the crap. I wonder if it's a setting issue, like line length, because some GG posts are rife with double, triple and quad spacing whereas some appear to come out normally.

Since I never use GG to post (it's too "infesterated" with javascript among other issues, I can't tell if they even allow changing line length and word-wrap functions. I just tried looking for an answer in Google's help forums but you can't use those, either, without enabling javascript. Just for fun, I copied the error message showing all the ways Google tries to "feel you up:"

To use Google Groups Discussions, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings, and then refresh this page.

\u003d2622806 ?contact_type\u003doptout_feedback

Holy smokes. We've come a long, long way from the idea of a simple hypertext information retrieval system that the WWW started out as, and I can really say it's for the better. Ironically javascript has turned out to be the number one vector for malicious activity.