Paint formula changes

I have a question about paint formulas. I have a feeling when I mention the manufacturer and/or the store, alot of you out there will say "oh well no wonder" or something nice like that. I'd appreciate it if you'd try and be as objective as possible in answering. We all have our attitudes... including me.

I bought a gallon of interior trim Behr (oooh no wonder!) paint from Home Depot (oooh say no more!) a couple of years ago. Used it for my window trim, and then the following year, when I finshed with *part* of a porch addition, did the window trim with the same paint. And

*then* the year after that when I finished the wall trim, couldn't find the paint. I figured I must've finished it up. I remembered the name, French Blue, was forgetting if it was Behr or not and called HD up to be verify it. They said, yes there was a French Blue in the Behr interior line, but it was an older paint and didn't carry it as part of their regular line any longer. But not to worry, he said, because they keep all the formulas in the computer and all they had to do was spit it out.

So I went in and got a gallon.

Immediately upon painting I noticed a rather drastic difference betw the previous year's painting and this one. I first thought, ok, this just has to dry. Then it dried and was still looking very different, and I thought, ok, maybe the paint is photoreactive and last year's paint darkened somewhat. In about a year, everything will even out. But when I finished the job, I just wasnt sure about that conclusion.

Then I found the "lost" can of paint from the previous year. I compared the formulas, and found a very slight difference, but a difference nonetheless.

PREVIOUS PAINT FORMULA

colorant oz 48 96 Lamp Black 0 28 0 Thalo Blue 1 20 0 Magenta 0 26 0

CURRENT PAINT FORMULA

colorant oz 48 96 Lamp Black 0 28 0 Thalo Blue 1 16 0 Magenta 0 24 0

You'll notice the lower numbers for the Thalo Blue and Magenta, which would, if nothing else, explain the lighther color.

So I called Home Depot and asked for an explanation. She (same lady who mixed it) said that Behr is "always changing its formulas". When I asked why? What sense does that make? She had an oblique answer by saying "when you came in I was a bit worried about mixing this up for you" thus cleverly making it more into my problem. I said that I had called them, said I had bought the paint a couple years ago, that the fellow said they kept the formula and no one said anything whatsoever about changed formulas.

Now, after a week and a day, I'm still waiting for her supervisor to get back to me (even though she said they'd do anything to help remedy the problem). I expect after a small exchange of gunfire, I'll come away with a gallon of paint, but it all just left me wondering. Is this normal? Do manufacturers change formulas at will and without notice? I called another dealer and he gave a qualified yes, saying that sometimes they might "consolidate the bases, like from 5 to 4 bases". But he himself hadn't seen just a change of numbers. And this change with my paint has had nothing to do with Base changes.

The cynic in me says that if Behr just lowers a couple of notches in the amount of colorant they put in each gallon, keeping the price the same, (or for that matter forced to lower the price by HD) they can keep costs under control. Does that sound plausible?

thanks in advance for replies av

Reply to
av
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av wrote: ...

It is not so simple as that.

For the most part you were only addressing the issue of the color formula. That is only part of the process. There is also the a paint formula. A change in the paint formula can require a change in the color formula and even then it may not be an exact match. In addition to the color, the finish may change and that may make the color appear different.

Paint formulas change for any number of reasons. Cost of materials is one. If one ingredient goes up in price or another goes down, it may be possible to make some changes in the formula with no loss of quality and may help them avoid a price increase. Customer demand also causes changes to the paint formula. For example many paints have become much more washable in the past few years. Government restrictions on formulas also may force changes.

Color formulas also tend to change. The color materials may change or newer mixing machines may result in new formula since the metering will be different. New color match systems seemed to have changed things.

Frankly if all they wanted to do was save a few dollars on tint, all they would have had to do is to thin down the tint and leave the formulas the same.

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

Call Behr but i will say it is their fault color changes are noted with other companys, you asked for the paint color get it. There may not have been a change just a mistake, it happens everyday when alot of paint is mixed, bottom line its your fault for not checking the color, but you will get a free gallon .

You idea on colorant and costs make no sence

Reply to
m Ransley

Even if you buy 2 cans of any brand paint from the same batch the same day, if you want a perfect match you need to blend them. Even if the formulars were identical there was just about a zero chance of a perfect match with the old batch.

Reply to
Art

Ive dealt with Ben Moore alot and their Satin Impervo line has the same colors or refrenced to for 20 yrs. Sheen is also the same. But I can see changes on more consumer lines lines being the norm. but who knows, Behr does.

Reply to
m Ransley

The paint colourant dispensing machines used for domestic or consumer sales are not precise. The colourant is not always stirred before each use, the method of measuring the colourant may induce a bubble and result in a little short on a particular colour, the size of colourant "shots" is not a very fine calibration.

In the 1950's, I worked in my fathers auto painting shop. We had a paint colourant system that was supplied by a major Canadian paint manufacturer. It used a float that sat in a gallon can. The colourant was hand dispensed but the float operated a needle on a scale. It could measure the level of the paint to a thousandth of an inch. Colours were precise and repeatable not like the rough measurements used in paint stores.

Anything from a paint store or paint department will depend on the person mixing the colours. Some are good, others don't care and rush through it. Each can could be different and need mixing together to get one colour.

Reply to
Eric Tonks

Sure, Behr might've changed the formula, and there are always variations in mixing.

But, unless you're really really interested in paint industry practices, this original forumula is all you really need. Or, the better solution: HD will "color match" any sample you bring in (with a spectrophotometer). They will also take back any mostly-unused paint you bring them, with or without a receipt. No worries.

JSH

Reply to
Julie

You really have no problem. Take the can of Behr back to the Home Depot returns desk. Tell them the color didn't match up. Get your credit or cash. Walk over to the paint desk with the OLD formula you shared here. Ask them to manually spec that formula into whatever surface sheen you want. No supervisor or management approval required.

Reply to
Curmudgeon

most of the home depot's i've been in recently have a computer controlled system. the user simply punches in the correct color code number, puts the can under the spout, and stands back.

Reply to
Charles Spitzer

Hasn't it ocurred to anyone that painted surfaces also weather and may be bleached unevenly, or be darkened by mildew and dirt. Modern paint colors are pretty stable but still not as sensitive as our color vision.

I recall this story from an old Readers' Digest, a time before computers were even found in paint production factories.

A house painter was being driven up the wall by the lady of the house. She wanted a tint of green for her wall to match the green of a picture frame she admired. Despite a growing collection of paint mixes nothing could match her expectations. Finally the old hand came in and asked what was the problem? He got the younger painter and the lady out on an errand while he mixed a new batch. By the time they came back the lady was delighted that the paint color finally matched.

Our young man was impressed. "What did you do to mix the match?"

"I didn't. I painted the frame."

Reply to
KLM

You must have skipped the part where I said that all I had at the time of the purchase of the second gallon was just the name AND the assurance from HD that they had the formula in their computer. This isn't so much a question as to why the formula was changed (altho' that has been a question for me) but rather why they didn't tell me about the change. And for that matter why they are changing a formula of a color that they dont even feature any more! Yes, of course, NOW that I realize that these formulas aren't cast in stone against the name of the paint, I'll hang onto the numbers.

I'm also glad that you think so highly of HD service. Im now waiting yet a second time (after a second call) for the Paint Dept supervisor to call me back. Yes it will all be resolved one way or another, but I'm sure going through alot for what should be a rather clear, rudimentary procedure.

Also, to the poster above who was trying to teach me about color matching, that is not the point of this post. Frankly, if at least the numbers had matched in the formula, I really really doubt that there would be as drastic a color change as that I have on my hands. There is a difference between slight and obvious.

Thanks to everyone else so far for their input. av

Reply to
av

You must have skipped the part where I said that all I had at the time of the purchase of the second gallon was just the name AND the assurance from HD that they had the formula in their computer. This isn't so much a question as to why the formula was changed (altho' that has been a question for me) but rather why they didn't tell me about the change. And for that matter why they are changing a formula of a color that they dont even feature any more! Yes, of course, NOW that I realize that these formulas aren't cast in stone against the name of the paint, I'll hang onto the numbers.

I'm also glad that you think so highly of HD service. Im now waiting yet a second time (after a second call) for the Paint Dept supervisor to call me back. Yes it will all be resolved one way or another, but I'm sure going through alot for what should be a rather clear, rudimentary procedure.

Also, to the poster above who was trying to teach me about color matching, that is not the point of this post. Frankly, if at least the numbers had matched in the formula, I really really doubt that there would be as drastic a color change as that I have on my hands. There is a difference between slight and obvious.

Thanks to everyone else so far for their input. av

Reply to
av

You know, I like your thinking. Simple and sweet. You think having a quart used out of the gallon is going to raise eyebrows though? :o)

av

Reply to
av

First you should have looked harder for the original can of paint and painted a card to be matched. But, why get upset, if you don't like the paint, take it back for a refund! Doesn't have to be anything wrong or a mistake; the only reason you need is that you don't like it. All the rest that they told you sounds like nonsense as is your idea that they would save money by using less colorant.

Take the gallon back for a refund. Have them match the old paint if that is what you want. It's not a problem.

Reply to
George E. Cawthon

Paint technology as both a consumer item and trade item is besotted with ignorance, because that's what appeals to most people, such as calling colors "French Blue" and the like. It's nothing but a proportion of various chemical pigments. They should specify and sell it that way. But no woman is going to buy a lamp black, thalo blue, and magenta blend when she can have "French Blue".

Most people have no idea what "latex" means in paint. They think it has something to do with rubber.

Reply to
Richard J Kinch

I dunno about YOUR HD but mine lets you return plants if they croak within a year. (I've been wondering how they will handle annuals-I have entertained myself with visions of digging up all my faded annuals at the end of the year and returning them for store credit).

Hard to imagine paint is a problem, although it's unclear why you'd need a quart to figure out it didn't match.

Reply to
Sue

Reply to
cerda28

I work for a paint company, so I was the subject of all chemical compositio ns in paints react differently to different colorants, what I mean is that if you sold them a different line of paint (different than the original ) s hould not necessarily apply the same formula and / or colorants, ask them t o comply with (2 units Magneta and 4 Thalo blue) but do not guarantee the r esults, because unknown to the chemical values of the two paintings, the sa me problem try in our company almost daily, by state regulations, we have i mproved the quality of our products by eliminating chemical contaminants, t hat in turn affects the reaction of the dyes in the new base to the extent that we have to adjust the formula to achieve the former colors. we recomme nd you repaint.

Reply to
cerda28

Please get a real news reader and get off of Google Groups. Do you understand that this is Usenet? Do you know what Usenet is? If not then please look it up. You're responding to a 10-year-old post.

Google Groups is just a hard-to-use webpage copy of Usenet posts. Usenet is not designed for webpages. If you get a real news reader you'll find it easer to use and you won't be trying to talk to people who've been gone for 10 years.

I work for a paint company, so I was the subject of all chemical compositions in paints react differently to different colorants, what I mean is that if you sold them a different line of paint (different than the original ) should not necessarily apply the same formula and / or colorants, ask them to comply with (2 units Magneta and 4 Thalo blue) but do not guarantee the results, because unknown to the chemical values of the two paintings, the same problem try in our company almost daily, by state regulations, we have improved the quality of our products by eliminating chemical contaminants, that in turn affects the reaction of the dyes in the new base to the extent that we have to adjust the formula to achieve the former colors. we recommend you repaint.

Reply to
Mayayana

Here we go again. I use GG and I don't have any problem in not replying to 10 year old posts. It's the operator, not the tool. Do you understand that different people have different usage models and just because you like your solution, it doesn't mean that other folks who prefer other solutions need to change.

Reply to
trader_4

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