OT Why $7.50 is enough

The specialists do.

Yes I have, and got an unlock code for one in one of the used Mercs that a mate of mine buys off ebay, fixes and sells for twice what he paid for them, by fixing their fault.

Yep, and that?s part of the reason its specialists that do most of the work.

But will still be able to with the non dealer operations and will be able to do it yourself. We have annual checks for registration renewal every year and that?s mostly done by non dealers who do all the work on cars and small trucks apart from the fancy stuff like radios.

Yep, I change batteries myself.

Yes, but any decent mechanic can do it fine.

Use youtube etc.

You don?t need 4 years of back to school for that that wouldn?t have taught you that anyway,

Don?t need to, get the dealer to do it.

And it still makes no sense for the state to require 4 years of formal training before you can work as a mechanic.

There will always be curly ones, but that's a separate issue to whether it makes any sense for the state to require 4 years of formal training before you can work on any cars etc.

In fact a mate of mine who has no formal training past high school and who was a right little brat in high school spends all his time as a mechanic buys used Mercs off ebay, fixes the faults other mechanics havent been able to fix and sells them for twice what he paid.

Sure, but any decent mechanic wouldn't have had to try things are random like you did.

Sure, there will always be curly ones, but clearly the formal training didn't help that mechanic.

Oh, as in someone with training? You made my point. You no longer go to Smokey's CB shop up the road.

Exactly, people with some training.

You still need some familiarity with electronics and how to find and fix the problems. Few people will just look at a youtube video and figure it out.

I didn't say 4 years, but some training is needed.

If the glass company does not have the instruments you do. Some now have them, not all do. As the systems become more commonplace they are investing in the equipment. Genesis dealers get about $125 for it.

I never said 4 years. But a competent shop today has assorted training for their certified mechanics.

I guess you don't mind these guys working on your car.

Nope, those who choose to specialise in that area.

Wrong, that is precisely who do specialise in that stuff.

Still wrong, they don?t have formal training. they just specialise in it.

But don?t need formal training in that.

Not when you can use youtube.

Any decent mechanic can.

Yes, they arent common.

I was given a box of bits that were the result of one of the neighbour's kids disassembling one of the bicycle epicyclic gearboxes that you don?t see on bikes anymore, before the internet was even invented and was able to put it back together as good as new with only a basic knowledge of how they work and the wear marks.

And I designed and built on a bare block of land the quite fancy passive solar house, again without any internet without any formal training in house building at all, just the library and walking around in the evening looking at how houses being built were done.

Bullshit. My mechanic mate hasn?t had any.

And the other one that me and a couple of other mates helped move a pile of rusting metal to his back yard which he turned into a magnificently restored vintage car didn?t either in mechanics.

But those operations don?t go back to school to learn how to do it.

They use the documentation that comes with it.

And the best mechanics don?t need that.

In fact I do all the work on my car myself.

There will always be incompetent fools in any area, even just changing a wheel.

How did they learn? Came to them in a dream?

Yep, they learned in a dream on night.

Yes, one person.

Where did they learn it?

OK, a sample of 1 Very scientific.

WTF do you think that is? A form of training.

Try running a dealership without it

Another sample of 1

By doing it, just like any decent mechanic does.

Nope.

Nope, by doing it.

Plenty more than one person that even I know.

By doing it.

None of the others I know have either.

Bullshit it is, just like it isnt with any appliance or the car you buy.

I know one that has done just that.

Plenty of others do that too.

Minimum wage is $14.25 in Ontario and the fast food restaurants are still doing fine (barely surviving through COVID but not due to wage costs) A McDonalds "manager" makes about $32000 a year. Student minimum wage is $12.75? Average fast food worker pay is $15 an hour in Canada. (not enough) Tim Hortons starts at about $14.25. Dairy Queen pay's $15. Wendy's pays $15.73 for a "shift manager".

I'lL call you on your BS The OBDII tells you what reading is out of spec. That is ALL it tells you. It takes an educated professional to know what can cause that reading to be wrong and how to test and PROVE what the problem is instead of throwing half a dozeh expensive components at the car, then cross their fingers and hope they didn't STILL miss the real problem. That's why the "pinpoint tests" in the factory manual for a given error code can cover 7 pages in the factory manual - and why the print version of a typical factory manual con be over 6 inches thick. (and cost several hundred dollars - and why they are virtually all now in electronic format indexed 7 ways to sunday) Many won't fit on a CD any more - and some require double layer DVDs. Servicing variable valve timing and gasoline direct injection, not to mention computer controlled transmissions and turbocharged engines and anti-lock brakes, and active colission avoidance, and traction control

- and canbus controlled door locking systems - and even tail-lights with computers in them - Good luck sucker of you don't have a well trained mechanic working on it. Just the electrical wiring will blow the mind of most "mr fixits"

- whenthe doors lockand unlock by themselves driving down the road - or the alarm goes off in the middle of the night - or the windows go up or down by themselves (or don't when you want them to) or the car won't start or the doors won't unlock (or lock) from the FOB - or the airbag light comes on - and particularly when the problems are intermittent - - -. There are no "adjustments" any more - sure. They require less scheduled maintenance - for sure - but those are the SIMPLE jobs that the uneducated guy with grease under his fingers and a $50 tool kit could do.

Also, Today's cars , on the whole - have a LOT more miles on them. A car with 10000 miles on it is just nicely broken in and you are not going to scrap it just because there is one small problem that you can't fix (but you would be surprised how many cars end up scrapped for what would have amounted to a "simple" problem 15 years ago ) because you don't have a properly trained mechanic to fix it.

ANd just for the safety and liability reasons untrained people should NOT be screwing around with safety related stuff - even "simple" stuff like brakes

We've all seen the posts from guys (possibly even guys like you) asking what to do next to fix whatever small problem on their car after replacing half a dozen or more parts - at a cost of several hundred dollars - that an educated mechanic could have told you in 10 seconds, without seeing the car, were NOT going to be the problem just from how you describe the problem - - - - . Many times it's "my mechanic has replaced all these parts and it still has the problem" or "I've haf 4 mechanics look at it and they don't have a clue"

Right - they are noit properlyt trained - and they LITERALLY don't have a clue.

ANd there is so much total bullshit on YouTube too. ANybody can be an "expert" There is a saying that sorting the goof information on the internet from the bad is like sorting flyshit from pepper.

I could add quite a few more from experience - having been a licensed automotive mechanic for almost 50 years. (just let my license lapse at age 66)

No use arguing with a fool - it's like mud-wrestling with a pig. He (Fred) is abviously willfully ignorant - We are all born ignorant, but it's a full-time job to remain ignorant all your life.

All the big glass shop chains have training programs and spend a LOT on training

As a fealer service manager I sent my technicians to training provided by the manufacturer several times a year. Average about 15 hours per tech per year. When I was working at an independent ":service station" garage the oil company provided training several times a year on different systems. I likely averaged 15 hours a year from SHell, Imperial, and Texaco over the years as well as seminars put on by publications like SSGM (Service Station and Garage Management) and from parts suppliers (like UAP/NAPA) and companies like Delco Remy, Neihoff and Echlin) just for starters - and that was when cars were "simple" mechanical dinasaurs

And how many un-necessary parts does he install trying to solve a problem before he stumbles on the right fix? Even a blind pig finds the occaisional acorn.

We'll see...

Bullshit with plenty of cars.

More bullshit. Plenty of the best mechanics can do that, they don't need to be educated to do that and never have.

The best mechanics don't operate like that.

And the best mechanics are free to use that.

Not anymore now that they are often trivially downloadable.

And the best mechanics don't need them for most faults.

Mate of mine that fixes Mercs has no formal training and always works out what the problem is. That's why so many get him to do the curly stuff.

Those faults arent common at all.

So those individuals are fine in the service stations that still do more than just pump gas. No need for the state to require 4 years of formal education before they are allowed to do that stuff.

That's very arguable with the cars most of us drive.

But plenty still get a new car every couple of years.

Yep, that's why that mate of mine buys those turbo Mercs off ebay, fixes the problem, and flogs them for twice what he paid for the original and the parts. With no formal training at all.

Bullshit. Any decent mechanic can replace brake pads etc.

Just as true of any decent uneducated mechanic and anyone that can do some research using google too.

Its no news that most don't have decent diagnostic skills but that's an entirely separate matter to whether 4 years of formal education is needed by the best mechanics.

Its no news that many mechanics don't have a clue with all but the most basic routine stuff.

Plenty were properly trained and still don't have any real diagnostic skills, because most don't.

None, zero, not one, nada.

Didn't when building the house either.

And when I did the concrete slab, had the local council building inspector tell the local builders to have a look at mine before the concrete was poured because that is how it is supposed to be done.

They didn't bother to use bar chairs, just pulled the mesh up with a long T handled thing with a hook on it once the concrete had been poured. The problem with that approach is that it doesn't guarantee that the mesh ends up in the right place vertically.

And we wonder why "STEALERSHIPS" have such a bad reputation - particularly in the unregulated redneck states and why everyone in the USA seams to be continually bitching about "mechanics" - because they very seldom actually are dealing with a properly trained, educated, cerified and regulated "professional" mechanic.

Even your "ASE Certified" designation is a bit of a sorry JOKE, by and large.

ANd as for guys with no training working on their own cars - BOY, could I tell you some stories!!!!! I've scrutineered at National Street Rod meets -(and Historic Automobile Club meets) and some of the DANGEROUS and totally illegal, STUPID and SCARY stuff you run across. (I'm in southern Ontario - and we got a lot of cars from New York, Michigan, Pennsylvania and other states (even Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, Florida, New Jersy - holy CRAP!! - and Washington State) come up for the CanNats and other big shows - and BY FAR the scariest stuff, was on American cars - some of them pretty fancy "high buck" "restorations" and "hot rods"

A lot of them made the "road kill" shenanigans look professional - We sent several vehicles back to the US border on trailers. Told them "It goes on the trailer or the OPP will be notified and you do NOT want them impounding the car and charging you for the offenses" What they do when they get to the border is up to them - but they were NOT going to be on Ontario roads endagering themselves and everyone else on the road. The sad thing is MANY of these vehicles came from states with mandatory annual "safety inspections" performed by the very untrained service station operators you claim need no training, qualifications, or regulation!!!!!

ANd travelling throughthe USA numerous times I've run across travellers who have had problems with their vehicles or rigs and have been to numerous shops attempting to solve their problems - and I've fixed them at the campground or on the side of the road in a few minutes because I KNEW what to look for - what would cause the problem

- and it was SCARY what they had spent on things that didn't have a CHANCE of being the cause of the problem.

A case in point was a little Winnebago LeSharo (Renault 4 cyl) who had spent over $1000 trying to solve a rough running and power loss problem - from Rhode Island to Florida to Arizona and back to Florida and Georgia - where we met when they stumbled into the camp-ground- on their way back to Rhode Island - and the whole problem was the new set of plugs they had installed before leaving home - and replaced with the same WRONG plugs and therefore ruled them out. (They had - the wrong- Bosch Platinums installed and the compression seals had failed in several of the plugs) - I put in the recommended AC Delco plugs and they were on their way - got a note from them when we (and they) got home saying it had NEVER run better - - - and the plugs were WAY less than half the cost of the Bosch plugs.

Onthe way through Michigan on the way to the west coast, towing a trailer with a 3 liter Aerostar we developed a HUGE transmission leak while on the road. It didn't leak at all in neutral or idling in gear, but as soon as you stepped on the gas it just FUMPED fuel. We were towed to the closest ford dealer (Imlay City Ford) and I asked if they had a front pump seal in stock - they did - so I went to the service desk to see if and when they could replace it for me. They said they needed to rebuild the complete transmission - $2800 and 2 fays - and they didn't have the parts . I told them they had the seal and that was all it needed - they said they could get it in at 1PM - the mechanic said "That's a 7 hour job by the book" - and I told him I was sure he could do it in 4 - and I'd make sure he got time and a half if it took him past quitting time at 5:30. When he finished it at 5:28 and it didn't leak he was surprized!!!!! He didn't position two of the plug wires properly when he re-assembled it - which caused a problem that surfaced about 2 hours later - but that's another story !!!!!

Its no news that plenty of mechanics don't have a f****ng clue with more difficult faults, even the ones with 4 years of professional education.

Even you must have noticed in your time in Africa that there are plenty of very decent mechanics that do fine without any formal education in mechanics at all.

So its silly to require that before you can work on cars.

Its no news that most don't have any real capacity to even work out why their lawn mower isnt working!!!!!

Here's the thing Cindy: Every barrel has a top, a middle and a bottom.

My guess is your rose-colored glasses prevent you from seeing that bottom and accepting that every barrel has one.

OK, you can go back to singing Kumbaya now...

I know that.

Nope, I can accept that. But I'd rather see the bottom of the barrel paid enough for their labor to live on, rather than sucking at the public teat. Apparently you like to see your tax dollars pay for Welfare.

Cindy Hamilton

Let them eat cake...

Engines are getting more complicated all the time. I just bought a John Deere x590 lawn tractor. The engine on it is fuel injected. All kinds of electrical wiring to make it work. That is just for about a 25 hp 2 cylinder engine. While it would not take a 2 or 4 year college type course on that, I would think that some few days of training from the factory would be needed to work on it.

As to cars I am sure most anyone could do the simple jobs like brakes and plug and light bulb changes, but once anything gets into the electrical system it will take a lot of training and skill to solve the problem. I bought a 1972 Dodge Demon. It had some kind of electrical system for the engine that was relative new. That car about once every week would not start. The engine would turn over, but would not fire off at all. Could do it to the battery would almost run down and finally it would start except about once a month it had to be towed in as it would not start. As it was a manual transmisssion funny thing was that after the battery would almost run down, it could be started by puahing it off very easy. I had it back a number of times and finally at about 18,000 miles traded it in for another car. I had made a mistake of paying cash for that car. Had I not , I would have let it go back after the 2 nd month I had it.