OT What does a Tomohawk missile really cost?
They keep saying a million dollars, or a little less, but does that
include amortizing billions of dollars of development costs?
What is the marginal cost of another missile?
It's hard to believe anything costs a million dollars after there is
an assembly line of sorts.
That's not as funny as you think. If China for any reason had to go to war,
they have tremendous manufacturing capacity (as we had in WWII) to make
weapons. Right now they're making anti-ship missiles and special "carrier
killer" torpedoes in amounts that are essentially indefensible against.
They're able to do it using former Soviet weapons designers and because they
have mass manufacturing know-how (they got from us!) and cheap labor. Our
military may not be ready to face a force that can seriously hurt it - we've
been up to our necks fighting goat-herders and suicide bombers, not a
credible national military force. Especially one that wants to prove it
deserves a place at the table of world powers. Taiwan is where you can
expect WWIII to start, and if we open up any more SOLIC's like Libya, they
may feel the time may never be better to assert control over Taiwan by
I agree. China has the population and could crank out lots of war materials
if they need to.
If it really comes to WW3 our carrirers will not be worth much. A nuke
exploded within a couple of miles will take them out. What does China call
their anti ship missle, a Silkworm ? Anyway if they launch 6 or 8 at a
time,the carrier does not stand much chance even without a nuke. That is
what hapened to Germany in ww2. They had a superior tank, but the US would
send 5 of the Shermans after one. Usually lost 3 or 4 to get each German
I think part of the Vietnam problem was we did not really want China to get
involved and that was close to 40 years ago.
first they have to FIND the carriers,(the sea is a very large place) then
get through the AEGIS ships.
Silkworms are OLD tech,easy to defeat.
the Sunburn's are faster and harder to defeat,but still doable.
Satellites have known orbits,and can only scan a swath of ocean on each
pass. Not all satellites can see through clouds,BTW.
Meanwhile,the carrier is constantly moving,conducting flight operations(at
but keep up with the "sarcasm"..... B-)
< My, you are ignorant .Even for a Yank.
China knows where all the big carrier groups are. They often shadow them
with their submarines and there have been several incidents with a Chinese
subs shadowing US Navy vessels without our even knowing they were there!
"American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese
submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to
the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on
board. By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack
submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching
torpedoes or missiles at the carrier . . . Analysts believe Beijing was
sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing
military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its
"backyard". The People's Liberation Army Navy's submarine fleet includes at
least two nuclear-missile launching vessels. Its 13 Song Class submarines
are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric
Of course, heads rolled in the USN over that embarrassment but the truth is
things have gotten worse, not better, now that they have killer high-speed
torpedoes that can stacked in underwater mine launchers and fired by remote
control. The Chinese have realized that neutralizing a carrier group means
they get a tremendous tactical and morale advantage because they don't
depend on carriers or need to with their airbases within striking range of
Taiwan. The Russkies knew that too. They developed the Shkval to counter
US nuclear submarines with ballistic missiles, which they considered as the
greatest threat to their security.
Underestimating an enemy is perhaps the most common and deadly mistake US
military and political leaders make. A friend at the Pentagon assures me
the Chinese know where our Pacific fleet is at any time of the night or day.
Carrier groups are easy to find because they're abuzz with radio traffic.
Simple triangulation with ground-based listening stations reveals their
position unless they're operating under radio silence. If that Song Class
boat had a compliment of Shkval's on board, the Kitty Hawk might be history
in a shooting situation.
We're not as good as we think we are and they are not as bad as we think
they are. They're getting better every day. The Chinese fielded a stealth
aircraft YEARS before the top brass of the Dod's timetable said they should.
Same for their satellite killing missiles. That should set the warning
bells ringing like mad, but instead, the top brass says "Well, they have to
tools, but they're not seasoned like we are." Blind, deaf and dumb!
My AF buddy goes to briefings with the Chinese and they've made no secret of
how they would take and hold Taiwan when the time comes. It's their number
one "thing" and much of their military buildup is done with that goal in
mind. They've always felt the US wrongly interfered and have never
forgotten. If they can put enough soldiers on the island before we can
react, there's no way we can dislodge them without killing thousands of
Taiwanese or more.
Precisely. The battles are won by the side that can take the biggest hits
and still fight. That was us in 1945 and it's China in 2011. They might
even come out ahead with a forced population reduction. The Silkworm is
really old technology compared to these:
"The speed of the VA-111 far exceeds that of any standard torpedo currently
fielded by NATO. This speed is a result of supercavitation: the torpedo is,
in effect, flying in a gas bubble created by outward deflection of water by
its specially shaped nose cone and the expansion of gases from its engine.
By keeping water from coming into contact with the surface of the body of
the torpedo, drag is significantly reduced, allowing extremely high speeds.
In effect, the Shkval is an underwater missile."
These supercavitation torpedoes, invented by the Russkies, dropped in a ring
around a carrier group in sufficient numbers or predeployed in clusters as
mines will be all that's needed to erase a US carrier group from the earth.
They can be armed with nuclear warheads, they travel underwater at 250 knots
(some reports say 300!), are cheap to make and very hard to counter.
Everyone in the Pentagon knows this, but they've all got their heads stuck
in the sand the way they did before the last WW when Billy Mitchell tried to
explain how valuable airplanes would be. They court martialed him for his
The carriers are the Navy's pride and joy and are often used by US
Presidents to "project power" in distant locations. The USN will *never*
give them up without a disaster forcing them to. My own estimate after
reading dozens of articles is that in a confrontation with China, we will
lose at least one carrier and perhaps a dozen support ships to the Shkval
and its cousins. I can almost see the video in my head the way I see the
China's already shown they can knock out our satelites and those play
heavily in a carrier group's defense against attack by reporting the
appearance and coordinates of missile plumes. China's entire military
strategy seems based on knocking out our carriers and knocking them out
fast. I'm sure they know where every US carrier is every second of every
day. With enough Shkval torpedoes in the water, there's no chance of a huge
ship like a carrier evading all of them. If they have nuke tips, ever a
near miss will end in catastrophe.
That was probably a smart decision. My old boss who fought in the Korean
War said he's never seen an enemy as determined, ruthless and fearless as
the Chinese troops sent to reinforce the Koreans.
You hit the nail on the head. We've made it clear we'll stick our noses in
that very nasty hornet's nest. Look how much Cuba bothers us and then
imagine how much Taiwan bothers China. In some other post I said it
squarely. WWIII will begin over Taiwan.
Having lived in Southern Nevada and Southern California, I have seen missile
plumes a couple of dozen times at least. That last "unidentified con-trail"
was a missile plume.
What can you expect from sociopathic liars? You can see them take the
cookies from the cookie jar. They see you see them taking the cookies, but
it's "I didn't take any cookies." And they look you straight in the eye and
That was a missile plume.
Special Operations/Low Intensity Conflicts - DoD speak for "brush war."
a.. SOLIC - What does SOLIC stand for? Acronyms and abbreviations by ...
Acronym, Definition. SOLIC, Special Operations & Low Intensity Conflict.
Springs of Life International Christian Centre ...
acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/SOLIC - Cached - Similar
You must have added Libya in your search. It's probably not yet been
branded a SOLIC. Just an odd curiosity that "Springs of Life" chose the
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