Just venting...
My wife took her car to a tranny shop to get a leaky hose repaired.
As expected, the bill had the standard line item charges for parts and labor.
However, there was an additional line on the bill:
Reset Codes & Test Drive Vehicle - $45
Seems to me that all they are doing is keeping their per hour labor charge artifically low by charging extra for something they would do as part of the repair any way.
on 6/26/2009 9:10 AM (ET) DerbyDad03 wrote the following:
Did they also charge for the disposal of the old fluid? Mine did.
Well if you don't want to pay the charges, order a repair manual from your dealer and do these things yourself.
I did this years ago. Not because of the charges (which I had no problem with), but because I took my car in 3 times and they did not fix it right. So I decided to do this myself.
Took a bit of learning, but getting the manufacturer's repair manual was a BIG help! (Much more detailed than the books they sell in auto parts stores.)
willshak wrote in news:y9- dnZv8OqDbUdnXnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@supernews.com:
I agree.
and don't forget "shop supplies".
Oh, you mean that *pre-printed* 2.00 EPA / Waste Disposal fee?
I guess they charge you that whether they dispose of anything or not!
Shop Supplies is listed as a pre-printed line item, but there was no charge in this case. Maybe they used old rags or something.
The new business model for the United States. Spread the wealth, spread the debt. Charge everyone for complying with government regs.
TDD
That will happen whether you see it on your invoice or not. Either that or the shop you are patronizing will go out of business soon, either because they aren't complying with regs and eventually will be shut down, or they aren't covering their costs and will go bankrupt.
nate
This, this, and so much more this.
I really don't like working on cars, but there are some things I'll insist on doing myself rather than let a shop hork it up. And then when I really need a shop I generally take it to the shop that mostly does race-prep and works on street vehicles on the side, and pay through the nose for it.
nate
I've done, and still do, those repairs that I have the skills, ability and *tools* to do.
But I have a question - a real question 'cuz I'm not arguing with you.
If I had gone to the dealer and purchased the repair manual, I'll assume I could have replaced the hoses that had blown out. Maybe I could even have done it without the manual. For what it's worth, it's a 2005 Taurus.
My wife said the tranny started to slip on the way to the store and when she came out there was a huge puddle of tranny fluid in the parking lot, so my questions are these:
Would the manual have allowed me to read/reset the engine codes and determine if any damage had been done to the tranny itself? I don't have a lift or a tranny jack, so could I have done the repair and the tranny service on a pair of jack stands in my driveway? Would I have needed any special tools?
Shop Supplies is listed as a pre-printed line item, but there was no charge in this case. Maybe they used old rags or something.
Last time my dealer had t hat charge, it was his last charge. IMO, that is a cost of doing business but they had an automatic 2% line item for it. When my bill used no supplies, it was there and I complained. In the end, I bought my next car elsewhere. GM (and their dealer) just pissed me off too much.
Not everyone understands mechanical diagrams and workings. If you do, great, but many rely on reputable mechanics. Fortunately, I do know many of the workings, but often choose to pay someone to crawl under the car. OTOH, the shop manual has saved me some bucks. Years ago, I took a car into the dealer to have the cruise control repaired. Paid $400 and was on my way but turns out, it was not repaired. Went home and looked at a shop manual. Next day, I went back and complained. They wanted to charge me an additional bunch of bucks for the new repair. I flipped the bill over, took my pen and drew a diagram of how the cruise control worked and why their first "repair" was useless and wrong. They fixed it and did not charge anything additional.
Rarely will I go to a dealer for anything as they tend to charge more than a good independent shop. The trouble is, finding a very good shop is difficult.
Don't go back to that shop. It's shady.
Last time I took a car to a dealer for service, it was to replace motors for power window. $200+. Mebbe just one window. As a "service", they looked under the hood and found over $900 in needed repairs, which included new carb. I didn't know at the time that the same dealer had already replaced the carb on the same car. I said no thanks. I then proceeded to my usual mechanic and we tried to find something wrong with the carb. I made up a story that my husband thought he smelled gas and thought the carb might be bad. That was '94. Still driving the same car, same carb, different good mechanic (I relocated). I just did a little cosmetic work on Miss Regal (Bondo and stainless steel wool), and she looks as good as I do :o) Runs great.
You can buy OBDII readers from harbor freight. They also reset the computer.
More than that, you need to peruse the FSM, be mechanically minded, have tools, and learn about the peculiarities of your particular vehicle.
As to the hose repair/replacement, you don't need a computer code to tell you a hose is faulty, you determine that by using your eyes and fingers. The only special tools required are hose assembly/dissasembly tools available at your local auto parts store. You can also jerry rig hose connectors using transmission fluid hose and a couple of hose clamps.
Jack up your car and look around. Touch things, and make sure you understand what each component does. When you find one which is new to you, look it up in the manual. Repeat until you "know" your car.
It help tremendously if you can find a forum online with discussions about your particular vehicle (or at least a similar vehicle with similar systems). Extra bonus points if there is a community of enthusiasts for your car.
Is it worth your time to do this? To be honest, it's not to a lot of guys. If it is, know that if a man built it, another man, you, can figure it out and fix it.
Jon
The old business model for the United States. Throw the old transmission fluid down the drain and let the next town downstream worry about it.
Not really. It is a cost and since walmart has everyone trained to look for cheap they break stuff out that would have been included in the shop rate.
I called my Ford dealer about my Explorer, several years ago. I told the service rep that I needed a power steering pump because the old one was leaking and I needed a radiator fan because it was developing cracks where the blades met the hub.
When I got there at the appointed time, they had neither part on hand and I had to cool my heels while that got hold of them. If that wasn't bad enough,when I got the bill there was a $45 item for diagnosis. I interrupted the rep while he was with another customer and asked about as loudly as I could "What is that for? I told you what the problem was."
They took it off the bill and I have never been back.
Charlie
Up here in Ontario it is illegal to charge for shop supplies. Unless they are itemized.
As for the reset codes and test-drive - IF there was a code set they NEED to reset the codes and test drive to be sure there is no other problem with the transmission. The leaky line could have been the only cause of a set code, or there could have been other issues. It has nothing to do with the per hour charge. It could have to do with the flat rate system of charging - where each job is assigned a particular labour charge - or straight time, where you pay for the time spent. They then would have broken it down - so much time to epair the leaky line (or replace it) and so much time to reset the codes and test drive (diagnose).
Generally repairing a leaky line does NOT include time for a diagnostic.
You'd be yelling a lot louder if they did NOT reset the codes and test drive the car, and it failed a few miles down the road.
No, environmental fees tacked on to every hydrocarbon product, aerosol, oil filter, etc now MUST be shown as a separate line item at one stage or other in the sales cycle. In most cases it is when sold to the end user. Depends who is remitting the eco-fee. Also depends on the laws in the particular location you are doing business and varies from province to province and state to state.
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