They aren't supposed to do that without your permissioin.
Verizon has gotten into trouble for doing that in central
Jersey. If I was to get FIOS, I would make damned sure they
didn't pull a fast one like that.
I hear they like to take out the copper but everything in your house is
yours so you just tell them not to. I have Comcast cable and internet
but still have old Verizon phones. I had choice of Comcast or Verizon
but was reticent to hook up with the "phone company" who has always had
atrocious service. Also don't want all my eggs in one basket.
Maybe, maybe not.` Ng_reader said the same thing, but I don't know
why you people think that. Used to be, people leased their phone,
even though it say on their own table or was screwed to their own
You can lease furniture, you can lease a piano, you can rent an
electric wheelchair, you can rent a tuxedo and put it in your closet.
Why would you assume that everything in your house is yours, without
reading the terms of service, which probably vary from state to state,
and which can probably change on 30 days notice published at the
public utility commission and posted on the internet at
Maybe, but I woudl stand over them from start to finish. A) It's hard
to tell if someone is listening when you're talking. B) Even if they
say OK, I won't take them out, they can deny later that they said it.
C) They can say they said it but they forgot. They can actually
forget. They can schedule you for replacement copper and never show
up, and how long will
You never can tell what people will do when you're not looking.
I converted everything to fios (TV, internet, phone) some months ago.
the installer left the copper in place and said I should leave it because I
might want to change phone companies later.
live in Texas.
A friend tells me tonight that if you subscribe to FIOS from Verizon,
at least when you use it for everything you have (tv, internet, phone,
or any subset) when they install the optical cable, they take out your
So that you can never go back.
He says that even if you sell your house, the new owner can't get
simple copper phone or DSL line, unless he pays someone privately to
reinstall the copper wires.
That's why my friend kept a simple phone line, and didn't get VOIP.
That's what he says, and he's no dummy. Does anyone think he's wrong?
Is Verizon only in the mid-atlantic, or the northeast?
(Missa, this would explain why it is worth it to dig those trenches
and holes to run lines where there are few or no subscribers. Talk to
Is this Verizon in Texas, or another company? It's another company, I
My friend and I are in Maryland, but I know Verizon is in a lot of
states north of here.
Sometimes the same company has different policies in different places.
My brother got cable internet in Dallas, Comcast I think, and the free
install wouldn't put it in the room he wanted (which was the hardest
room). When I got back here, the guy at the comcast booth at a hamfest
said in Baltiomre that they would put int in any room you wanted, for
the free install, even if it required work. He knew I was just
chatting, and not a customer so he had little reason to lie, and
that's what he said.
I am no fan of phone companies but I don't see the point. FiOS is fiber
to the premise. They can run anything on it including phone service. So
there is little point for them to maintain a dual plant system of both
fiber optic and copper cabling.
As a subscriber you buy a service. If you buy dial tone service I don't
see why it would matter if it were provisioned on copper or fiber. Or in
the case of DSL you are buying broadband data. Why would it matter to
you if it came via DSL on copper or over fiber?
Copper phone lines provide electrical power (driven by central
generators) so you can still use simple phones when the power goes out.
Fiber to the home means you're relying on battery-backup.
I lived on the East coast during the big blackout, had no power for a
few days. Some people were without power for multiple weeks....I'm
guessing their battery backup won't power the phones for that long.
You can address that but adding your own UPS. The phone company pretty
much has to do what they are doing and it is a good thing. If they don't
build out fiber and add services the cable companies will take their
core business away because they can offer VoIP over their existing cable
Consider what sort of (non) competitive situation it would be if cable
companies were the only providers.
It's not clear to me that you can add a UPS with FIOS. You can do it
with with some of the cable VOIP solutions, where they essentially
give you a kit that has the VOIP hardware and you just plug it in to
AC and coonect to the cable. With FIOS, where is the box located
that converts the traditional phone signal into VOIP? If it's in
some box under Verizon's control, then you may not be able to hook a
UPS to it. Anyone know what Verizon's position is on what happens
when the AC goes out in your neighborhood?
Plus, a UPS is just another level of complexity and eqpt to worry
about. Like, do you think grandma wants to deal with it?
The phone company pretty
You simply unplug it from the wall outlet and plug it into the UPS.
It isn't much more involved than plugging in a toaster and besides thats
what the grandkids are for.
As I said if it doesn't happen people will be wondering why their
"basic" comcast bill is $250.00/month.
Well, I did a little research and while it does appear that you can
indeed just plug the FIOS eqpt into a UPS, what I found raises new
issues. A battery backup unit and a power supply have to be located
inside the house to power the FIOS termination box on the outside of
the house. Additionally, the guy in this article who had it
installed said that per Verizon the power supply can't be plugged into
a power strip, it has to go directly into a wall outlet. So, I don't
know what their official position is on plugging it into a UPS would
be. Certainly you could do it after they left. However, how about
if you don't have an outlet at all that is convenient to where the
service needs to enter the house? It does raise more installation
The point is some folks may have good reason to not go through all
Except that in this case, the "toaster" may be in a crawl space or God
knows where. And what if there is no convenient AC outlet? Who
pays to get that installed?
Nonsense. That didn;t happen 30 years ago, when cable were the only
act in town, other than OTA. Don't get me wrong. More competition
in this case is good. But to claim the sky is falling and cable is
going to cost $250 a month unless we force people into fiber from the
phone company is silly. Ever here of Direct TV and Dish?
The current penetration rate of cable companies taking away landline
phone business is very modest. I get solicited constantly to go with
Cablevision's VOIP and ditch Verizon landline. I tell them no,
because for me, it only amounts to maybe $10 a month. And there are
the dirty little secrets they don't tell you about:
1 - They give you a VOIP box that you get to install yourself. Well,
guess what? It's designed to just plug a phone into it, not to be
installed to connect to the existing phone wiring in your house.
That's fine if you just have a cordless phone. But how about if you
have a TIVO, a fax machine, and an alarm system that dials out, all of
which are distributed around the house. Do I want to figure out
how to intercept the incoming phone lines, turn it off, connect in the
Cablevision box, make sure it works correctly with the alarm system,
etc? I had a friend that tried to do it, wound up with hum on the
2 - I haven't checked recently, but when I did a couple years ago,
alarm companies like ADT would not support service via VOIP
3 - Call quality issues. On the existing landline phone system, once
a call is setup, you have a guaranteed timeslot that get filled with a
voice A/D conversion at an 8khz rate and delivered exactly at that
rate and in order to the other end. With VOIP, the voice samples
get sent and routed like any other internet packet. Meaning there is
no guaranteed delivery time, which can lead to voice qualtiy issues.
That has gotten better in recent years, but I don't know anyone that
would argue that the call reliability or voice quality are as good as
The whole thing is also being driven by the other side of the
equation. That being that the phone company wants the $130 a month
part of the bill for cable and internet more than they want the $40
bill for phone service.
On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 06:42:40 -0700, email@example.com wrote:
What's the difference?
I don't like using a UPS. I don't like the fact that whenever I'm
using it, it is hot. I'm wasting electricity. When it's summer time,
I'm heating my room which is either already hot, or which I'm paying
for AC to cool.
And I don't want to buy a second one just for the basement, or have to
move this one during a power failure. Especially at night when I
can't see what I'm doing. (I have a flashlight, but not in every
room. I have to go get it.) All so much simpler with copper.
Here in PDX, OR., Comcast is pushing VOIP on their cable, and
including a warning that you can't reach local 911 service with
Somehow, I don't think thats a problem unique to Comcast, or to this area.
Why would any body use VOIP?
Sorry Ed, I have to disagree with you.
VOIP is not cheap. And the $ 99.00 packages around here are a low ball
and jump way up when the promotional period runs out in 12 months.
I know that individual situations will vary, but.......
My POTS dial tone from Qworst is 24 and change a month.
My "dial one" carrier for long distance is an outfit called myGTC. I
pay $ 0.025
(thats 2 and a half cents a minute) for long distance, anywhere in the
US or Canada.
Even with "unlimited" long distance from Comcast here on their VOIP
my total phone bills for local and long distance never approach the $ 48
month that Comcast wants as their "real" price for VOIP.
I'd have to spend more than $ 23.00 on long distance at $ 0.025 / minute --
more than 900 minutes - ~ 15 hours on long distance for VOIP to
make mere economic sense.
And with Comcast, I can't reach local police, fire and medical emergency
service on 911.
Not to mention that Qworst has to get rate increases approved by the Oregon
PUC and Comcast doesn't. And I can get a response from Qworst because
monitors service quality and response / repair time with Qworst, but not
I don't see any economic benefit (Comcast is more expesive than my
current set up)
or technological benefit (no phone in a power outage, and we get lots of
outages from November through March) or service benefit (no 911 service on
Comcast) to Comcast VOIP.
Other areas of the country may have a different calculus, and other
folks may have
different calling patterns, but for me VOIP makes no sense.
Seems to be a diffrence between digital phone and VOIP
By using known VoIP services you are using your current internet
connection to place a call over the internet using the internet
signal/bandwidth to transmit your call. This in turn can cause call quality
issues such as echo, crackling and voice hesitations. With MetroCast Digital
Phone service, your phone conversations will not be impacted by applications
which require the internet. By using a standard known as Quality of Service
(QOS) in the telecom industry, MetroCast is able to provide you with
reliable and quality Digital telephone service.
In most places now, you can reach them and they get the caller ID same a
This is from our local cable company
Safety and security is top priority and with Digital Phone service, you are
provided enhanced 911 service which sends your telephone number and address
information to a local 911 dispatcher if 911 is dialed from your home. If
there is a power outage, MetroCast Digital phone service and E911 access
will still be available due to a battery back up in the modem which is
installed in your home. Please keep in mind that cordless phones which plug
into an electrical outlet will not function during a power outage. Be sure
to have at least one corded phone in your home in case of a power outage.
*If there is a network outage or a downed cable line in your area, Digital
Phone service and E911 service may be interrupted until the necessary
repairs can be made. This is the same with your current telephone provider
today if your telephone drop was to be compromised in any way or there was a
system related problem in your provider's network.
I'll wait until it is actually here to decide, but I pay a lot for overall
phone service. Sure, the $99 is a come on, but I know one guy that is
saving about $75 a month on his phone with intrastate long distance charges.
That will vary, as does cable services selected etc. I won't consider a
change for $10 a month, but certainly will for $50+.
begin 666 lb.gif
M1TE&.#EA"@`*`( !`/___P```"'Y! $```$`+ `````*``H```(41'Z6N*FH
The VOIP guys claim that QOS fixes everything and makes it peechy
keen. It appears that today VOIP is much better than it was in say
2000. But in my experiences in talking with people who have it, it
still is not as reliable or of consistent voice quality that you get
with a landline.
Yes, the failure to work with 911 was a big problem until a couple of
years ago. My understanding also is that in most cases, it has now
been fixed and does work. But, I'm sure there are still some systems/
areas where it does not.
How much, if anything VOIP saves you depends on what services you have
and how you use them. If all you have is basic local service with
the phone company, make few long distance or intrastate toll calls,
etc, then there may not be much benefit to switching. It might
actually cost more in some cases, especially if the only service you
get is VOIP.
On the other hand, if you have some features like caller ID, call
waiting, call forwarding, etc, and make a lot of toll calls, then it
can save you quite a bit. The cable guys package it with their other
services, cable TV, internet. When you look at the package pricing,
which makes sense for a lot of people today, then the pricing
generally looks good compared to the phone company.
Kinda sorta. The way it works is that the software gives you the
ability to say where you are and then it will route it to the
(hopefully) correct 911 center. The problems include what happens if you
are somewhere other than home and forget to change your location (a
small but rather interesting subgroup). I haven't checked in the last
year or so, but last I did, it also did not include address information
in those areas that have enhanced 911. If you pass out or otherwise
can't communicate then they can't easily know where to send the help.
That may have changed recently.
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.