| So now the merchant knows you have a tampered with card. Good luck
| buying high-ticket items with it.
High ticket items? Do you buy cars with credit
cards? I don't. The card has a tiny hole.
Most of the time the clerks don't even look at
the card. If they do they're unlikely to see the
hole. If they see it and ask I'll tell them. There's
no reason for them to care, as long as the card
swipes OK. In my last one I removed the chip.
That was several years ago. I've yet to have
I would bet that if you try to tell 10 clerks that
you've removed an RFID chip from your credit
card, 9 will say, "Have a good day, sir." If it's
not required to do their job they won't care.
Curiosity is not a common thing. :)
| What is your plan for the future? At some point
| merchants may not have
| equipment to swipe?
Maybe not. My current plan is for now.
I don't see why you feel so strongly in your
defense of the changes. You've posted a flurry
of adamant posts saying that people should
accept the changes and not worry. I'm just
saying that I'm dubious, I want to be careful,
and I want to understand exactly what I'm
dealing with. And based on what I know now
I'm trying to protect my privacy/security. Doesn't
that make sense?
I find your approach is usually a symptom of
ostrich thinking: People who don't want to deal
with things get annoyed by people who do. Mention
computer security/privacy and the ostriches immediately
start making tinfoil hat jokes, because they don't
want to be reminded of what they're trying hard
to ignore. I've never subscribed to that strategy.
If you put your head in the sand you're likely to
get burned in the ass, or worse. :)
Willful ignorance seems like the relaxing option, but
in the end it's actually far more demanding and tiring
work than simply relating to things in the first place.
It's the pebble-in-the-shoe syndrome. We avoid a pebble
in our shoe because it seems like a hassle to stop and
take it out. Eventually we've got a sore foot and a pain
in our hip joint. Finally we tear off our shoe, furiously
mad at that pebble -- "I politely ignored you. How dare
you keep pestering me?!"
Knowing what you are dealing with makes perfect sense. That is why I
think it is silly to destroy a security measure that will do you no
harm. Like you, I did a little research and I now know the difference
between an RFID and EMV chip.I also know I have no liability so I'm not
That is where you are wrong here. Your premise may have value, but I
did bother and educated myself and I'm confident it is better than the
old swipe card.
Yes, that is why I did some research. Eliminates the ignorance.
So we should adjust our tinfoil hats and move along.
In Canada we have had the chips for several years, now almost all the
POS machines will prompt you to insert the chip even if you try to swipe
it. Destroying the chip will effectively render the card useless.
| In Canada we have had the chips for several years, now almost all the
| POS machines will prompt you to insert the chip even if you try to swipe
| it. Destroying the chip will effectively render the card useless.
I'd be happy with that. What I'm not happy with
is contactless cards that can be read by anyone
nearby and contain a RFID chip (or possibly, in some
cases, an EMV chip.) I think this issue is getting
confused by the conflation of contact-less IDs
with a new style of swipe technology.
I found a PDF with the EMV schedule
proposed by the various card issuers. V/MC do
say that as of 10/1/15 "the less secure party will
be liable", but as far as I can see, neither party is
going to be anywhere near having EMV chips in the
US by then. As I noted above, I just got a new card
and it only has an RFID chip, which I promptly
disabled. The last card from that bank, a few years
ago, also had an RFID chip. I've yet to see an EMV
| > High ticket items? Do you buy cars with credit
| >cards? I don't.
| I was thinking about a $1500 TV, not so much a car!
You have rich tastes. If I had to pay $1,500 for
a TV I'd settle for reading. :)
If it weren't for Netflix I'm not sure I'd even bother.
PBS has gradually degenerated into the British Soap
Opera Channel. (With occasional breaks for Neil deGrasse
Tyson to pass off carnival barking and special effects
as science.) The networks seem to all be playing either
a slick version of Community Auditions or one of the
numerous sicko police shows like "Let's Hunt a Psycho
Murderer" or "Let's Figure Out Exactly How The Psycho
Murderer Tortured His Victims" or "Catching a Psycho
Murderer by Studying Worms in Corpses". (What is
it with this perverse, gruesome obsession?)
When I'm so tired that I'll watch almost anything, I
find myself switching back and forth between old
Cary Grant or John Wayne movies and ads for
transvaginal mesh lawsuits. .... I seem to remember
there used to actually be thoughtful shows on TV, but
I can't seem to find them anymore.
But all that aside, I sometimes do spend upward of
$1,000 at HD or lumber yards. I regularly spend several
hundred dollars at a time. I can't remember the last time
that I even had to show my card. I just swipe, scribble
gibberish on the plastic screen, and I'm on my way.
My impression is that both the merchants and the credit
card companies are generally happy with the status quo.
The credit card companies are making a bundle through
2% cuts and loansharking scams. They're apparently also
losing a lot through theft, but I'm guessing that's pocket
change for them. If it weren't they would have done
something about it.
And I love it. My Amex cashback card gives me back 3%, 2% or 1% cash
depending on what I buy. That currently amounts to around US$500 a
year for me which I apply to my bill. Since I don't carry a balance,
and there is no annual fee, that is free extra cash for me, That's
cash I wouldn't have if I paid cash...
| And I love it. My Amex cashback card gives me back 3%, 2% or 1% cash
| depending on what I buy.
That's because AmEx charges more to merchants than
the other companies. You may get cash back but you're
also helping to drive up the prices you pay.
Are you sure the upgrade will be an RFID chip and not an EMV (Europay,
MasterCard and Visa) "pin and chip" type of chip - which requires
physical, electrical contact with the card reader? The EMV pin and chip
is much more common than the RFID chip, is used throughout Europe, and
has appeared on 3 of our U.S. issued credit cards during recent
update/upgrade cycles. EMV chip readers are being phased in in the
U.S., not RFID readers - which used to be in many of my local
supermarkets here in the D.C. metro area, but have since been replaced
by non-RFID card readers. EMV chips cannot be read by RFID sniffers.
I don't want and wouldn't use an RFID chip card because of the security
vulnerabilities. If your card will have an RFID chip, I'd check with
the issuing bank to see if they have a card with an EMV chip that will
meet your needs.
Do they actually say that it is "RFID" or is it merely a chipped card (chip
and pin)? The latter has been used in the rest of the world for a very long
time rather than our primitive magnetic swipe cards? All of the North
American CC purveyors are supposed to be switching to chipped cards
although they are fighting it and dragging their feet.
On 04/11/2015 01:35 PM, BenignBodger wrote:
One of my cards (Sears Mastercard) was replaced with a chipped card last
year. The others haven't.
BTW, more than 10 years ago, my American Express card had RFID. They
took that out around 5 years ago.
My wife's Amex card was replaced with a chipped one about 6 months ago
and mine wasn't. I called thinking mine was lost in the mail since in
the past we always got our new cards at the same time. They said they
were just trying a limited issue and I would get one eventually.
So far my other cards haven't changed yet.
I don't destroy mine. If someone gets *that* close, we will have a
PS. If you get a new (US) passport it has an RFID chip. Some people
recommend taking a hammer to the chip. If you do, and its deemed
deliberate you can be charged with destroying government property! So
don't admit to it.
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