open circuit

[Frank Thompson]

Yes, in the kitchen.

[Frank Thompson]

not sure what it is called, but it is 4X8 with fake wood pattern on one side

[Frank Thompson]

know routing of wire, but not precise location of failure

[Frank Thompson]

Replaced it with new breaker and also swapped it with breaker on another circuit. Open circuit remains on bad circuit and original breaker works on another circuit.

[dpb]

So, you didn't give any help on the real issues of isolating the problem. Seem desperately reluctant to actually say anything useful... :(

[trader_4]

Does that mean that there appears to be a direct run from the breaker to the first outlet and that while you have voltage at the wire end at the breaker there is no voltage at the wire end at the first outlet? How much of that wire can you see? If for example it runs through a basement and then goes straight up where the outlet would be, then I'd be fairly confident that's how it runs. If you can't really follow it, then my first suspicion would still be that there is another junction in a box somewhere that's the problem. Could be in the basement, attic, etc. And have you used a non-contact type circuit tester to see if there is voltage on it as far as you can follow it?

Do you have easy access to just run a new cable, eg through basement, and then up? If so, and you can't find a break, then that is likely the easiest solution.

[Scott Lurndal]

Last time I tracked one of these down, it _was_ behind the wall. A nail from the exterior had pierced the romex and shorted N to G because the electrician hadn't centered the through-hole on the face of the stud.

[hrhofmann]

Have you actually put a test light bulb on the output side of the breaker to see if it really lights up?????????? A simple thing to do, and it is the only way you can really be sure there is voltage on the wires that go into the wall!!!!!!!!

[bob haller]

and test lights on each conductor of the failure spot.

I believe its a kitchen outlet, perhaps theres a tripped GFCI in the circuit before the dead outlet

[John G]

And!! What effect do you suppose that would have? :-? Certainly it would be unsafe but shorting N to G will not result in NO power at the outlet end. :-Z

[hrhofmann]

Thank you John, I was wondering if I had faulty thinking exactly the same thing. The OP is not very forthcoming with answers to my questions either.

[Frank Thompson]

yes

Yes

There is neither basement nor crawl space under the bldg. It is on a slab. There is no attic...only small crawl space up there. Wire runs from main junction box straight up stud to ceiling crawl space, across on horizontal top stud, down vertical stud to outlet.

yes

...... and then up? If so, and you can't find a break,

That is the plan.

[Frank Thompson]

It is a kitchen outlet, but GFCI is on a different circuit.

[bob haller]

frank all kitchen outlets should be on a GFCI.

I suuuest you check every outlet in your home for power. every last one

[trader_4]

Another question is the age of the house, ie if GFCI were required when it was built. And if there are any other GFCI on other outlets in the kitchen, bath, etc. If there are, then it would be unusual for the two that are out to not also be on GFCI. When he looks for other outlets, he should make sure to include ones in the garage, outdoors, etc. It's not unusual to find some indoor outlets sharing GFCI protection with one in the garage, outside, etc.

[hrhofmann]

When are you going to use an actual light bulb to test the circuit at the u tput of the breaker. Non-contact sensors can be fooled, and if there is an open in the ground side, almost anything can indicatevoltage, except an ac tual circuit load like a light bulb. It is beginning to appear that you ar e the dim bulb because you won't do the definitive test at the breaker outp ut.

[trader_4]

utput of the breaker. Non-contact sensors can be fooled, and if there is an open in the ground side, almost anything can indicatevoltage, except an actual circuit load like a light bulb. It is beginning to appear that you are the dim bulb because you won't do the definitive test at the breaker ou tput.

He did say he swapped the breaker with a working one and also replaced it with a new breaker, both of which would rule out the breaker as the problem.

[clare]

If there is a load on the circuit, a non-contact sensor will not lie. Any current draw will clamp the voltage downstream of a high reistance / faulty breaker.

[hrhofmann]

But the OP says there is an open somewhere, so the voltage may not be clamp ed. I can't understand why the opposition to putting an actual light bulb on the breaker output to put the issue of a possible breaker problem to res t. Swapping out the breaker is probably the way to go, but the light bulb is 100% accurate. I have in my 78 years seen all sorts of phantom effects like the OP is talking about, and the light bulb or some other actual load is the only guaranteed way to do this.

[trader_4]

mped. I can't understand why the opposition to putting an actual light bul b on the breaker output to put the issue of a possible breaker problem to r est. Swapping out the breaker is probably the way to go, but the light bul b is 100% accurate. I have in my 78 years seen all sorts of phantom effect s like the OP is talking about, and the light bulb or some other actual loa d is the only guaranteed way to do this.

Good grief. He said he replaced the breaker with a new one and he also tried swapping breakers. That rules out the breaker.