open circuit

Circuit with two outlets is dead. Circuit breaker is ok. Outlet themselve s are ok. Is there any device available that can give a precise location of the problem? W/O such a device I would have to remove an entire inside interior siding panel which is wrapped around a window and light. I would prefer to locate the location of the problem and remove only a small sect ion of the panel to access the problem.

Reply to
Frank Thompson
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ves are ok. Is there any device available that can give a precise locatio n of the problem? W/O such a device I would have to remove an entire insi de interior siding panel which is wrapped around a window and light. I wou ld prefer to locate the location of the problem and remove only a small se ction of the panel to access the problem.

Most likely it's not behind a wall. There shouldn't be any wiring connecti ons there if it was done to code. Far more likely the problem is a wire com ing loose in one of the outlets, switches, etc that it's daisy chained through that then feed the ones that are out. Find the other outlets/switches etc that are on that circuit, then find the ones closest to the problem ones. Start looking there. If they used backstab type connections, those are one common source of problems like this.

Reply to
trader_4

tions there if it was done to code. Far more likely the problem is a wire c oming loose in one of the outlets, switches, etc that it's daisy chained th rough that then feed the ones that are out. Find the other outlets/switches etc that are on that circuit, then find the ones closest to the problem ones.

No other outlets or switches are on that circuit. This is in a 16 yo struct ure. My guess is that pressure of one of staples attaching wiring to stud finally touched hot wire, caused heating & hot wire finally broke.

Reply to
Frank Thompson

ections there if it was done to code. Far more likely the problem is a wire coming loose in one of the outlets, switches, etc that it's daisy chained through that then feed the ones that are out.

cture. My guess is that pressure of one of staples attaching wiring to stu d finally touched hot wire, caused heating & hot wire finally broke.

I assume you've verified that voltge is present on the wire at the breaker, by actually measuring it? And that no voltage is present at the wire that comes from the breaker to the first outlet? Any access to the wire from where it runs from the panel to the first outlet, where you could test with one of the none contact testers to verify that portion? Are you sure there's no possibility that it runs to some other outlet with a GFCI before going to the other two? Maybe even outside? It's common for mysterious outlets going dead to be caused by a GFCI that you're not even thinking about.

Also, have you considered possibly just running a new cable? Depending on other access, eg basement, doing that could be easier than tearing openwalls.

Reply to
trader_4

Seriously doubt that's the case IF the circuit breaker was not tripped.

To generate "heat" you describe means resistance. Resistance in that form would mean short to ground which takes you full circle to tripped circuit breaker.

Circuit breakers DO crap out from time to time. Is this, by chance, an outlet that gets tripped frequently? If so, I would definitely be checking the circuit breaker as others have advised.

Reply to
Unquestionably Confused

It is more likely that you simply have a loose connection. It might even be in a ceiling box.

Reply to
gfretwell

Not necessarily. You could drive a nail or staple through the cable, damaging it so that the conductor size is reduced to the point that it can't handle the current and overheats. That further damages it, and eventually it burns out, leaving an open. No tripping in that case. On the list of possibilities, I agree, it's far more likely something else.... A wire nut that is poorly fastened can do the same thing, heating up, ultimately failing open.

Reply to
trader_4

There are probably a couple more POSSIBLE causes that we haven't even thought of. Go with the odds though...

When you hear hoof beats, think horses (around here, anyways) not zebras

Reply to
Unquestionably Confused

99.99% the problem is at a connection which, by law, MUST be in an accessible box- so unless someone has really screwed around with the circuit you should not need to pull any panels. Get a "fox and hound" signal tracer. Shut off the breaker and trace the signal back.
Reply to
clare

Unless a total idiot did the wiring. that possibility is about 1 in a million.

Reply to
clare
+++++++++++++++++++

Are you sure there are only 2 outlets on that braker ? Check both sides of each outlet on the circuit. Often they have a bar between the screws that is made to break out if you want to use two circuits to the same outlet. I have had those bars to burn into. Seems they could not take the vacuum cleaner motor .

They do make tracers for circuits. You cut the power to the circuit and hook up a transmitter to the wire, then you use a hand held unit to follow the tone. They are usually used for under ground circuits and the hand unit is about like a small weedeater in shape and size.

There are other things that can be used, but cost a lot. A capacitor checker could be used to get a close idea. You take several feet of wire and measure it, then measuer the capacitance of the faulty wire. Then calculate the distance. Another device is like a closed circuit radar. You send a pulse down the line and it will read out the distance.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

Frank,

Why bother to trace the bad circuit? A waste of time and money. Just fish some new wire and be done with your problem. Making repairs inside the wall is probably a code violation. Cut off the old wire and leave it in place.

Dave M.

Reply to
David Martel

structure. My guess is that pressure of one of staples attaching wiring to stud finally touched hot wire, caused heating & hot wire finally broke.

Agreed. Highly unlikely with the wiring and staples I've seen used. I'd de-engerize the circuit and break out the fox and hound tester to try to determine where the wires actually go. Then, as trader suggested, I'd look for bad backstabs. Then I'd look for bad junction boxes.

I'd also use a standard $5 plug-in outlet tester on the circuit while energized to see if there's an open neutral or hot. As a last resort I'd suspect that the circuit breaker has failed and might swap it out to test it with an ohm meter or a known good device. I found it very useful to have spare breakers for the panel in the most common ratings since breakers always seem to fail when HomeDepot is closed.

I do find it odd that one breaker is powering only one outlet. That's fairly uncommon in my experience.

Reply to
Robert Green

On Sunday, May 25, 2014 10:35:42 PM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote: I'd

Dpne that... their route is known

Then, as trader suggested, I'd look

Done that

Done that

Swapped it out & replaced it with a new one

There are two double outlets on the breaker

Reply to
Frank Thompson

This is was the final conclusion of my electrician and I.

Reply to
Frank Thompson

might swap it out to test it

Time to run a new wire and abandon the old cabling. You've done pretty much everything you can do without breaking open the walls which you may have to do to run new wire. I'd probably be sorely tempted to go after the old wire anyway just to find out what failed. If, as you surmised in your earlier posts, it IS is staple that's worked it's way through to the conductors then odds are that other cables stapled in the same way or by the same electrician when those circuits were first run will eventually fail.

Where are these double outlets? In the kitchen? How much power is routed through them typically? (i.e. hairdryers, toasters, etc. or much lighter loads?) I would want to know what other outlets I'd want to keep my eye on.

Reply to
Robert Green

On 5/26/2014 5:34 AM, Frank Thompson wrote: ...

Same location or different?

If different, have you pulled connection to the first one free from the outlet and tested cable alone? If it's dead there, you know which section is the bad one (actually, if it's live there then, you also know which is the bad one).

What is the wall covering -- is it some kind of paneling I gather rather than drywall?

Reply to
dpb

It is VERY common depending on the outlet. Refrigerator, Microwave, and countertop receptacles are very commonly "dedicated" circuits, as is a Central Vac, the furnace, window A/C, etc.

Reply to
clare

And what was the result???

Reply to
clare

The OP has not said what he used to verify the breaker itself. A 100 watt light bulb on clip leads is what I would use to put an actual load on the b reaker. Anything else is subject to argument. I can't think that a staple in the wa ll would burn thru a wire without something smelling or light flickering or tripping the breaker itself. So for starters maybe the OP can tell us wha t he used to verify the breaker itself. Then, we can proceed with further a dvice.

Reply to
hrhofmann

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